Well I will stick with my votes now. Although this save would make a quick finish.
Emperor Cookbook III -- Kublai Kahn
- Thread starter ChromiumL
- Start date
Well I will stick with my votes now. Although this save would make a quick finish.
The cats won't upgrade for a while, as I wasn't heading for steel. Now, the knights, on the other hand, will upgrade in 3 turns...
Also, it's "pnaxighn"
I'm not really sure what I was doing last round. I build banks even in military pump cities (if it will pay off--say by 5 to 10 extra per turn). Maybe thats a mistake... I still don't really have the hang of city specialization. Especially like gp farms... I know the basics of it, but I hate to have to build a wonder in a sub-par city just to prevent artist or other 'pollution'.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Indeed, the "hard part" is done, Darius will capitulate shortly (see my spoiler report), then it's 3 vs 1 on Zara (if Khan doesn't bribe others foes like Freddy), 4 vs 1 on Saladin, and 5 vs 1 on Freddy...
Now I will finally look at Soirana save
(the magical awesome disappearing save 
)... and others too of courseCheers
The cats won't upgrade for a while, as I wasn't heading for steel. Now, the knights, on the other hand, will upgrade in 3 turns...
Also, it's "pnaxighn"
Oops at the name. Even with upgraded knights thats a lot of fun. Steel can be teched. Your save was different to rest that made it interesting.
Chrom: As for your save. I was coping without banks. I used a mix of specialists to pay for my military pump cities. 20-40% science rate is ample for 1400ad. I always go by the number of beakers and not the science slider rate. If my science rate is at 70% I have not expanded enough. I do think Soirana has got the steel/musket rush thing done to perfection.
Those production cities already built were awesome. A unit each 1-3 turns with a GE. The capital was a great military pump city/GP farm too.
RRRaskolnikov: Yeah you did a good job on the offensive part. I was far too eager to bash yaqob early on.
I'm happy to continue this game from any of the posted saves, but IMO the learning objective of this cookbook series would be better served with a new game. It appears to me that we have frequently reached a situation relatively quickly where a save is sufficiently good that anyone who can win regularly at monarch can take it forward to an emperor win.
The areas where I feel I am weakest are playing a good early game and turning round a position so that I can win from a weaker start.
RJM
The areas where I feel I am weakest are playing a good early game and turning round a position so that I can win from a weaker start.
RJM
So lets talk a bit about this...
I agree with RJM that we should probably move on at this point. The save is in a winnable position--if you want to take a save and play it through till the end, feel free, but that isn't necessarily the purpose of the cookbook. It also seems that we are loosing interest at this point...
So there are a few things...
What is the purpose of these games? So far it seems that the main purpose is to focus on getting ahead in the early game.
But RJM makes a point that it is also very educational to come back from a sub-par position. Obviously we don't want to vote for the 'worst' save, so I am not really sure how we can achieve this objective. For example--playing from the save that had the giant Alexander stack heading north would be very educational--but we would generally never vote for that save. I think that is how I (personally) will start voting. If you want to pick a save that you can learn from, feel free to do the same. Democracy will help us figure out which path we take
Also, we seem to be finishing these too quickly -- so I am thinking we should pick a civ for our next round that has a late(er) game UU... at least at gunpowder. Here is what I am thinking:
Maybe Roosevelt (Industrious Organized) or Bismark (Industrious Expansive) or Louis XIV (Industrious Creative)... I also like Gumbolt's suggestion of Zara Yaqob (Organized, Creative)
Maybe Big and Small map -- Large size (let me know if your system can't handle this size and we will take it back down to standard)
Epic Speed
Final question--Do we have any weekend only players, or players with other restrictions on when they can play? If the Wednesday-Sunday play and Sunday-Wednesday vote doesn't work for you, let me know. Of course, we won't be waiting until next Wednesday to start a new round
. I hope to start a new round within the next 24-48 hours.
I agree with RJM that we should probably move on at this point. The save is in a winnable position--if you want to take a save and play it through till the end, feel free, but that isn't necessarily the purpose of the cookbook. It also seems that we are loosing interest at this point...
So there are a few things...
What is the purpose of these games? So far it seems that the main purpose is to focus on getting ahead in the early game.
But RJM makes a point that it is also very educational to come back from a sub-par position. Obviously we don't want to vote for the 'worst' save, so I am not really sure how we can achieve this objective. For example--playing from the save that had the giant Alexander stack heading north would be very educational--but we would generally never vote for that save. I think that is how I (personally) will start voting. If you want to pick a save that you can learn from, feel free to do the same. Democracy will help us figure out which path we take
Also, we seem to be finishing these too quickly -- so I am thinking we should pick a civ for our next round that has a late(er) game UU... at least at gunpowder. Here is what I am thinking:
Maybe Roosevelt (Industrious Organized) or Bismark (Industrious Expansive) or Louis XIV (Industrious Creative)... I also like Gumbolt's suggestion of Zara Yaqob (Organized, Creative)
Maybe Big and Small map -- Large size (let me know if your system can't handle this size and we will take it back down to standard)
Epic Speed
Final question--Do we have any weekend only players, or players with other restrictions on when they can play? If the Wednesday-Sunday play and Sunday-Wednesday vote doesn't work for you, let me know. Of course, we won't be waiting until next Wednesday to start a new round
. I hope to start a new round within the next 24-48 hours.
Large size - it will handle. More or less i played Earth18 it is bigger
Days - well i work on switching schedule, but looks like my best bet is Sundays.
Save - don't know... May be random? Vote saves that are to good and unwinable [if any].
Or maybe just choosing suboptimal after first set. So game would not get incredible good start.
Speed do not really care. We can drop to Marathon if there are enough favouring that.
Days - well i work on switching schedule, but looks like my best bet is Sundays.
Save - don't know... May be random? Vote saves that are to good and unwinable [if any].
Or maybe just choosing suboptimal after first set. So game would not get incredible good start.
Speed do not really care. We can drop to Marathon if there are enough favouring that.
So lets talk a bit about this...
I agree with RJM that we should probably move on at this point. The save is in a winnable position--if you want to take a save and play it through till the end, feel free, but that isn't necessarily the purpose of the cookbook. It also seems that we are loosing interest at this point...
So there are a few things...
What is the purpose of these games? So far it seems that the main purpose is to focus on getting ahead in the early game.
But RJM makes a point that it is also very educational to come back from a sub-par position. Obviously we don't want to vote for the 'worst' save, so I am not really sure how we can achieve this objective. For example--playing from the save that had the giant Alexander stack heading north would be very educational--but we would generally never vote for that save. I think that is how I (personally) will start voting. If you want to pick a save that you can learn from, feel free to do the same. Democracy will help us figure out which path we take
Also, we seem to be finishing these too quickly -- so I am thinking we should pick a civ for our next round that has a late(er) game UU... at least at gunpowder. Here is what I am thinking:
Maybe Roosevelt (Industrious Organized) or Bismark (Industrious Expansive) or Louis XIV (Industrious Creative)... I also like Gumbolt's suggestion of Zara Yaqob (Organized, Creative)
Maybe Big and Small map -- Large size (let me know if your system can't handle this size and we will take it back down to standard)
Epic Speed
Final question--Do we have any weekend only players, or players with other restrictions on when they can play? If the Wednesday-Sunday play and Sunday-Wednesday vote doesn't work for you, let me know. Of course, we won't be waiting until next Wednesday to start a new round
Hey that giant alexander stack was destroyable if you let him take babylon!! Defending Akkad was the issue. Giving this to yaqob would of given you peace. After that you could tech to lib and do steel / musket rush.
As for industrious. I think this wont help you learn emperor. I played the Egytians and Incas with this trait and walked it. I vasselled the continent by 1485ad with cannons. I think Soirana will walk that too.
I think Zara would be fun. I would love to see a series done on Sury although i can accept his UU is poor. Then again we are learning a new level. The weaker UU adds to the challenge. If you do America do the non Indus leader. This challenge needs to be fun but learning curve too.
Making it too easy wont teach you anything.
I certainly dont think you should stop the series. As players improve the choices of saves will be interesting. I do feel its important to have a map where different approaches can be used. Its also fascinating to see how players use different approaches.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Hi,
I feel the players in this thread have few to learn from emperor, some games are better but most would have land a win here.
So perhaps the solution (I don't buy random save or worst save as this doesn't encourage focus while playing) would be to play the next immortal cookbook (I play myself immortal in off line games so this is anyway most likely what I will do).
Marathon is fun but easier I can assure you ( I used to play 100% of my games in marathon). Axes are almost game breaking in marathon (350 turns till 1 AD for reference).
Also not sure about large maps... they could reduce the audience of the thread and refrain people from playing.
Thanks for hosting this as always ChroniumL
Cheers
I feel the players in this thread have few to learn from emperor, some games are better but most would have land a win here.
So perhaps the solution (I don't buy random save or worst save as this doesn't encourage focus while playing) would be to play the next immortal cookbook (I play myself immortal in off line games so this is anyway most likely what I will do).
Marathon is fun but easier I can assure you ( I used to play 100% of my games in marathon). Axes are almost game breaking in marathon (350 turns till 1 AD for reference).
Also not sure about large maps... they could reduce the audience of the thread and refrain people from playing.
Thanks for hosting this as always ChroniumL
Cheers
Hi,
I feel the players in this thread have few to learn from emperor, some games are better but most would have land a win here.
So perhaps the solution (I don't buy random save or worst save as this doesn't encourage focus while playing) would be to play the next immortal cookbook (I play myself immortal in off line games so this is anyway most likely what I will do).
Marathon is fun but easier I can assure you ( I used to play 100% of my games in marathon). Axes are almost game breaking in marathon (350 turns till 1 AD for reference).
Also not sure about large maps... they could reduce the audience of the thread and refrain people from playing.
Thanks for hosting this as always ChroniumL
Cheers
As a barely monarch level player, if that, that would mean I couldn't participate anymore. Maybe YOU shouldn't play in these, RRR, but I'd certainly like to!
Hi,
I feel the players in this thread have few to learn from emperor, some games are better but most would have land a win here.
So perhaps the solution (I don't buy random save or worst save as this doesn't encourage focus while playing) would be to play the next immortal cookbook (I play myself immortal in off line games so this is anyway most likely what I will do).
Marathon is fun but easier I can assure you ( I used to play 100% of my games in marathon). Axes are almost game breaking in marathon (350 turns till 1 AD for reference).
Also not sure about large maps... they could reduce the audience of the thread and refrain people from playing.
Thanks for hosting this as always ChroniumL
Cheers
I am still learning emperor!!! Immortal is a big jump!!!
Set up a new series and lets get on with it.
I am also one of those people who isn't really ready for a jump to Immortal, so no worries about dropping the Emperor level of the cookbook. Soirana is right about this, if your save is frequently one of the best submitted, then perhaps it is time to either play Immortal Cookbook or not submit your save for votes (only to look at as an example of awesomness).
I can see that having an industrious leader might be a little too easy for this group
Why don't we do something where we vote as we have been doing, then drop the #1 as being just too powerful and play whichever save took second? Or, is this too much like voting for the worst save?
I think Suryavarman (Expansive, Creative) would be a good choice. No exploitable UU or UB which means we will have to rely more on our skill than on an awesome UU or UB.
We will go ahead and stick with a Standard map--I don't want to exclude people because their systems can't handle it. I am just trying to brainstorm as to how to make our games last a little longer.
Unless someone has an issue with anything I have brought up, I will post a Big & Small standard size map with Sury as leader at Epic speed later today (within the next 12 hours).
Just a warning in advance... the first round might be a little wonky as we are off our normal Wed-Sun play cycle. I am thinking of switching it around to Friday-Wednesday play, Wednesday - Friday vote.
I can see that having an industrious leader might be a little too easy for this group
Why don't we do something where we vote as we have been doing, then drop the #1 as being just too powerful and play whichever save took second? Or, is this too much like voting for the worst save?
I think Suryavarman (Expansive, Creative) would be a good choice. No exploitable UU or UB which means we will have to rely more on our skill than on an awesome UU or UB.
We will go ahead and stick with a Standard map--I don't want to exclude people because their systems can't handle it. I am just trying to brainstorm as to how to make our games last a little longer.
Unless someone has an issue with anything I have brought up, I will post a Big & Small standard size map with Sury as leader at Epic speed later today (within the next 12 hours).
Just a warning in advance... the first round might be a little wonky as we are off our normal Wed-Sun play cycle. I am thinking of switching it around to Friday-Wednesday play, Wednesday - Friday vote.
I hope you will stay with us as well. Some of the best learning points come from seeing how things could have been done better.
On the subject of playing conditions, I wonder if we should slightly shorten the number of turns in the early rounds.
RJM
I am also one of those people who isn't really ready for a jump to Immortal, so no worries about dropping the Emperor level of the cookbook. Soirana is right about this, if your save is frequently one of the best submitted, then perhaps it is time to either play Immortal Cookbook or not submit your save for votes (only to look at as an example of awesomness).
I can see that having an industrious leader might be a little too easy for this group
Why don't we do something where we vote as we have been doing, then drop the #1 as being just too powerful and play whichever save took second? Or, is this too much like voting for the worst save?
I think Suryavarman (Expansive, Creative) would be a good choice. No exploitable UU or UB which means we will have to rely more on our skill than on an awesome UU or UB.
We will go ahead and stick with a Standard map--I don't want to exclude people because their systems can't handle it. I am just trying to brainstorm as to how to make our games last a little longer.
Unless someone has an issue with anything I have brought up, I will post a Big & Small standard size map with Sury as leader at Epic speed later today (within the next 12 hours).
Just a warning in advance... the first round might be a little wonky as we are off our normal Wed-Sun play cycle. I am thinking of switching it around to Friday-Wednesday play, Wednesday - Friday vote.
I think you are worrying too much. There are lots of people who would happily play this cookbook. If we tell all the good players to go away how can we see the places where we go wrong.
You can learn from playing, but you also learn by seeing others games.
As for the voting. if someones save is voted best then play that save. If you want people to vote for the save that will be more fun or help learn the game better then make it clear at the start.
I think the last game was over rather quickly due to the powerful UU and 2-3 great production cities and a cool GP farm.
Like its been said on other posts these cookbooks need to make use of some of the weaker nations that are not financial, ind or philosophical.
If someone wants to set up a immortal cookbook then thats good news for the forum. These series are always fun and help you to learn your game more. The Emperor version of this will always have its place.
I was looking at the Monarch series that ws set up lately. This is now in its fifth installment and going well.
I think start a new series and lets get playing. I am done with the typing part now.
)If you cant decide on a leader go random on the less overpowering ones.
Not Sury as i am setting up a trait series on here soon.
Sorry all, got distracted last night and forgot to make the post for the new game.
Here it is!
The only real change from previous games is concerning voting. Basically vote how you want, but you don't necessarily have to vote for the 'best' overall save. So, if you want to vote for best learning experience you can. Democracy will decide which way we go!
I thought about changing the date structure for the game, but I just really don't have time right now to dig into the game and figure out what good breaking points are. I will pay more attention and next game we may switch things around a bit and have shorter rounds at the beginning of the game (particularly the 1500BC to 400AD round).
Here it is!
The only real change from previous games is concerning voting. Basically vote how you want, but you don't necessarily have to vote for the 'best' overall save. So, if you want to vote for best learning experience you can. Democracy will decide which way we go!
I thought about changing the date structure for the game, but I just really don't have time right now to dig into the game and figure out what good breaking points are. I will pay more attention and next game we may switch things around a bit and have shorter rounds at the beginning of the game (particularly the 1500BC to 400AD round).
No need to be Sury. lol
I will set up the trait series on Sury anyway. Its a different game to your one anyway and its more about the challenge of facing certain types of leaders.
I only picked Sury as he has a weaker UU and less used leader.
Although if I am honest I am starting to see him as the new Hammy from civ3. I loved the early culture grab Hammy had on temples and libraries in civ 3. Although in this case its granaries and libraries.
I will play both anyway.
I do think these cookbooks need to pick less used leaders to help train players. If i played HC all the time I would win every game hands down. Same for JC and Darius. Financial/Philosophical and Industrial traits are way over powered if used correctly.
Challenges are good.
PS i may nab your sury details for my post
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