Enhanced Forts

[Alorente]

Forts are very weak in Civ. There are few reasons to build them, especially in squares where you could be enhancing food and production by building other improvements. In real life, of course, fortifications were critical to keep invading armies and navies at bay. Vicksburg is a prime example during the Civil War. Enemy ships trying to navigate past Vicksburg down the Mississippi were committing what amounted to naval suicide. The same situation was found in the 1700's when Napoleon's coastal fortifications kept the English Navy away from France's coastlines for the most part.

To strengthen forts I propose:

1) Reduce the defensive bonus in the 8 squares surrounding all forts by 50% as long as Artillery is present in the forts. This would simulate the support bombardment that would occur in such squares when battle took place in them. In squares where there is no defensive bonus (ie. Grassland/Plains or Ocean squares), the defense bonus should be changed from 0 to -25%. Ideally, the defensive bonus should descend gradually in direct proportion to the amount and quality of artillery units in the fort, but that may be too difficult to code.

2) Increase the defensive bonus of the square where the fort is placed, maybe to 50% to 100% from the 25% now, again proportional to the amount of artillery if possible to code.

I believe, with these changes, forts would become a staple of any Civ's defensive strategy.

 

[Afforess]

We're almost better off adding a ZoC mod than this... Not that your ideas are bad, but they would be easier to run with a Zone of Control, a la Civ2.

 

[Killtech]

what about just changing forts so they don't override other improvements? so you could have a cottage and a fort on the same tile. easier done and enhances forts.

 

[gramcrkr103]

I find the AI will rarely attack my forts, even if aircraft are based in them and lightly defended.

 

[Afforess]

what about just changing forts so they don't override other improvements? so you could have a cottage and a fort on the same tile. easier done and enhances forts.

Not going to happen, that would be too large of a change.

 

[NBAfan]

We're almost better off adding a ZoC mod than this... Not that your ideas are bad, but they would be easier to run with a Zone of Control, a la Civ2.

What was Zone of Control? That was in my dark age.

 

[Alorente]

We're almost better off adding a ZoC mod than this... Not that your ideas are bad, but they would be easier to run with a Zone of Control, a la Civ2.

That would be a good way to go too. I just think that as they stand right now, forts are pretty useless and that's just too bad because used correctly, they could make battles much more interesting.

 

[Afforess]

That would be a good way to go too. I just think that as they stand right now, forts are pretty useless and that's just too bad because used correctly, they could make battles much more interesting.

Sorry, I was being facetious. ZoC? In Civ4? Yeah right...

It would take so long to get right that it's not worth the effort, but maybe in Civ5.

 

[Killtech]

Not going to happen, that would be too large of a change.

okay, i don't quite understand what you mean. what kind of large change? code? balance? something else?

 

[Afforess]

okay, i don't quite understand what you mean. what kind of large change? code? balance? something else?

Zone of Control is a huge game change. It's scale would easily dwarf two or three things on my todo list combined.

 

[Killtech]

Zone of Control is a huge game change. It's scale would easily dwarf two or three things on my todo list combined.

what? no, that's not what i ment. i thought your comment was on my idea and was surprised because it sounded like a minor change to me that'd make forts usable for tile in cities economy range. had no other changes in mind.

 

[Afforess]

what? no, that's not what i ment. i thought your comment was on my idea and was surprised because it sounded like a minor change to me that'd make forts usable for tile in cities economy range. had no other changes in mind.

What, just giving forts a 1 range ZoC? That actually doesn't sound so hard...

 

[Alorente]

What, just giving forts a 1 range ZoC? That actually doesn't sound so hard...

That is precisely what I meant. Maybe I used to many words. In mentioning Zones of Control, you started thinking for all units. Doing it for the fort alone, which is fixed in place, should not be hard for you. Heck, at your speed we may have the feature done by tomorrow.

 

[Alorente]

what about just changing forts so they don't override other improvements? so you could have a cottage and a fort on the same tile. easier done and enhances forts.

Killteck, it's difficult to see how you can have a fort on top of a farm or in the middle of a pasture surrounded by cows. Hey, maybe the cows would get in the way of the invading army ... Nah, they would use them as cover. Not cool.

 

[zappara]

2) Increase the defensive bonus of the square where the fort is placed, maybe to 50% to 100% from the 25% now, again proportional to the amount of artillery if possible to code.

There are more advanced defensive improvements that have higher defense % than Fort (f.ex. Bunker).

 

[Killtech]

Killteck, it's difficult to see how you can have a fort on top of a farm or in the middle of a pasture surrounded by cows. Hey, maybe the cows would get in the way of the invading army ... Nah, they would use them as cover. Not cool.

forts usually use a very small area. it's hard for me to imagine that one could occupy a whole tile. while farmland covers vast areas so that you even can see them from space. furthermore settlements were commonly build around castles so combining a cottage and fort on one tile is very intuitive. and the thought of a castle overlooking and protecting large farmlands make sense for me too... well maybe except for the graphics in civ 4 to display this.

What, just giving forts a 1 range ZoC? That actually doesn't sound so hard...

i actually never mentioned anything like ZoC and wanted to present an alternative idea to improve forts (that would not change any of its defensive properties but just its economy - just that you can build forts on any improvement without replacing it, nothing more than this simple thing.)

 

[civ_king]

What about being able to designate a unit fort commander, this would change the unit class allowing it access to special promotions (and allowing it to keep all xp on upgrade)?

 

[Afforess]

just that you can build forts on any improvement without replacing it, nothing more than this simple thing.)

The problem with that is it sounds simple, but would actually would be a huge change in terms of code. Tiles only have 1 slot for improvements, changing to for 2 or more would involve a massive rewrite, try ~5000 lines of code.

 

[Afforess]

What about being able to designate a unit fort commander, this would change the unit class allowing it access to special promotions (and allowing it to keep all xp on upgrade)?

This is not Rife.

 

[Killtech]

The problem with that is it sounds simple, but would actually would be a huge change in terms of code. Tiles only have 1 slot for improvements, changing to for 2 or more would involve a massive rewrite, try ~5000 lines of code.

ah.. ok. i understand now. guess a workaround to make forts terrain features like forests or somemthing like roads isn't worth it.