Exotic Unit Pack - Mod Collaboration Thread

[DracoTheGreat]

Ok, so when taking the screenshots, I found the dog soldier's textures were a little weird.

Now, this didn't happen before when I was testing, and happened just now for some reason.

 

[DracoTheGreat]

Will these do?

 

[sman1975]

Lookin good, actually! I see what man about the Dog Soldier art. Have never seen that in testing. Are you playing with any other mods?

 

[DracoTheGreat]

Other than IGE, no.

 

[sman1975]

grrrr....... Will look at it in a bit. have seen things a bit like that before when the model gets corrupted. Usually, that involves a mod conflict where two mods are using a different name for the same object or using the same name for two different objects (usually the latter). Will see if I can recreate the error.

Can you do me a favor please, and clear cache then restart civ? see if the error stays or goes away?

 

[DracoTheGreat]

I tried it a few times, and it still persists.

 

[Nutty]

In case you haven't yet discovered it, @sman1975 , it looks like you're missing "Sioux_Horse_diff.dds" for the Cheyenne Dog Soldier.

You should have seen the error too, so I suspect you have R.E.D. Modpack or Ethnic Diversity installed. If so, you wouldn't have seen the error because that texture is included by those mods.

 

[sman1975]

@Nutty - you are, as usual, totally correct in your assessment... Odd thing... an earlier version of the mod actually had that file in it. Even after the mod was rebuilt, the old file remained in memory and "worked" although it wasn't present in the latest version of the mod.

But, as you probably know, my typing is a bit imprecise, so I'm theorizing I hit the delete key inside Modbuddy at an inopportune moment.

Another one of those design flaws in Modbuddy where it does exactly what I tell it to instead of exactly what I meant...

 

[Nutty]

FYI, I've seen that behavior (files being loaded even if they're not in the latest version) if there are multiple versions of my mod in my MODS folder.

"Dumb computer, do as I mean, not as I say!" Well, that's programming for ya.

 

[sman1975]

Mod is published on Steam!

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1259586334

Please let me know if you see anything that needs changing/correcting. And thanks for all the help getting this thing out the door!!!!


@Nutty - the game definitely "caches" artwork. I've seen several times where I build the mod but didn't like a certain coloring on a model. While the game is still running, but at the "Mods" menu, I'll alt-tab out, update the artwork, rebuild the mod, go back into Civ V, load the mod then load a save game. The old artwork will still show on the units, even though the new artwork is in the current mod. I'll have to completely exit Civ V, the viola, the improved artwork now appears.

It's a bit frustrating, but once you learn some of the Civ V quirks, it does get easier. Of course, having experts such as yourself "coach" makes things easier as well....

 

[DracoTheGreat]

Yo, a 190 subscriptions on Steam.

 

[sman1975]

Hey, @DracoTheGreat - we're over a thousand!

Actually, in 8 full days, the subscriber number is 1,150, with 70 of them calling it a "favorite!"

We're at 4 stars with 36 ratings, but I've seen this a lot on mods in the past, that this improves over time as more ratings come in.

Still, your design is proving quite popular!

 

[DracoTheGreat]

Holy crap, that is awesome!

 

[flamingrubys]

These are a few What if? scenarios if ancient civs (like rome, Alexanders' greece, or iroquis) made it to the present


Roman Exitium: a tank like unit (if possible) replaces modern tank

Removes city attack debuff but is 10 or 20 points weaker, Design:has a bit longer barrel, and two purple squares on the front forming a eye like shape

greek Shield wall: Its like a general but gives a larde def bonus instead of both, replace mech inf 40 str, large armoured vehicles forming a shield shape

 

[sman1975]

Thanks @flamingrubys - Appreciate the suggestions. Can we discuss it a bit more, so I can start working on the new units with everything I need to build them?

1. Exitium: A few questions:
1a. Is this unit unique to the Roman civ? if not, I'd prefer to add it as a new unit and not to replace the existing tank unit for all civs unless absolutely necessary - irritates players who like the normal unit. Or is it a Mercenary unit available for hire?
1b. Modern armor replacement - available with Lasers, and requiring 1 aluminum? Maybe require oil? Or both?
1c. On the artwork - I'll look around and see if I can find something cool. One thing I should point out is I have limited abilities when it comes to art, so I'd much prefer to find something out there and incorporate it into the mod.
1d. Does it upgrade to the GDR or something else or nothing?
1e. Combat strength for "Modern Armor" is 100, so this one would have 80? Modern Armor doesn't have a city attack debuff - only no defensive terrain bonus and can more after attack.

2. Greek Shield Wall:
2a. Again, is it a UU for the Greek civ or available to all? Or Merc?
2b. Does the unit give Great General bonus to other units or just itself?
2c. Normal Mech Inf unit has combat strength of 90. At 40, these units would be more comparable to the Rifelman unit. Or am I misunderstanding something?

 

[DracoTheGreat]

I got even more suggestions!

Specifically, for the chariot. There really isn't much use for it after the introduction of the Horse Archer units. So, I'm thinking maybe we replace it with a melee attack chariot that gains a bonus on flat grounds (so shock I promotion), and gets all its movement points taken when entering rough terrain. It's basically a stronger version of the horseman unit that can fight better in flat terrain. Also, it can move after attacking.

I guess it can upgrade to a knight like the regular chariot archer. But obviously, it would make more sense now as both these units are melee rather than ranged.

Stat wise, I think it can just be stronger than the horseman, as I said before. Maybe 1 or 2 more attack points. (Can't remember what they're called, haha.)

I don't know if this is possible or not, but to make the horseman unit more useful as well, I think we can make it have a "charge bonus" of sorts. I can't exactly explain it, so I'll just paint the picture in your head.

Your horseman unit is starting at position A, which is 2 tiles away from an enemy warrior. You attack, and because it was 2 tiles away, it got a bonus. If it was 1 tile away, it wouldn't have gotten that bonus. If you're still confused, just ask, and I'll try to explain it better.

This upgrade, or trait, can carry on to the Knight unit as well, I suppose.

 

[sman1975]

OK. Good to see we have room to grow. Seriously, the mod was designed so it can easily add new units. It was kind of the entire point of the way I designed it, actually...

Chariot: ok - I can manage to either add a new chariot unit or "fix" the stats in the regular in-game unit (IOW - do we leave the ranged Chariot Archer unit in and add this Chariot, or do we change the Chariot Archer to where it's melee only?). I'm assuming we'd leave the Egyptian War Chariot UU alone?
- The Shock promotion deals with defenders on flat (open) ground. But that's probably ok.
- There is also a "Heavy Charge" promotion the Polish Winged Hussars get - it forces a defender to retreat if the attacker inflicts more damage than it receives. A defender who cannot retreat takes extra damage.
- There is a "rough terrain ends movement" promotion that can be added.
- Upgrade to Knight makes the most sense to me - for the same reasons you suggested
- I'd probably recommend adding a couple of offensive promotions (Shock 1/2, Heavy Charge, Blitz/2 attacks? Charge: 25% bonus vs. damaged units) and some others (City attack - 50%, rough terrain ends movement) - my goal would be to make this a glass cannon. His Combat Strength (attack points) would be something like 5, but with promotions, he'd actually attack with somewhere near 10 - but still defend with 5. Seems about right to me.

So - do we change the basic Chariot Archer unit to a melee unit or do we add a new melee one? If a melee one, is it a Merc unit or normal? FWIW, Combat Strength for Chariot Archer is 6/10 (combat/ranged combat), Horseman is 12 CS melee).

Horseman: I'd love to "fix" the Horseman unit, as I really don't think it's very useful - for many of the same reasons the Chariot is a waste of production.
- I'd recommend adding the "25% bonus vs. damaged units", although I'd prefer to make it either +33% or +50%. The Heavy Charge promotion would be even better, but it's diluting the special nature of the Winged Hussar unit, and people who love the Polish Civ might be annoyed - unless we perhaps change it's CS from 28 to 32...? Just a thought... Kind of the same fix we did for civs that normally had Elephant units - buffed them up to make up for adding similar units...
- Horseman upgrade to Knight makes perfect sense
- If I understand your concept - the more movement points a Horseman uses, the stronger the attack (i.e. he gets a good run at the target) - have to factor in roads! It's straightforward to implement in LUA, but... we'd be adding a function call and test for every unit that ever enters combat - just to see if it were a Horseman. That's a lot of overhead for what is probably only a few dozen attacks in the entire game. I'd prefer to go with Shock 1 and Charge promotions awarded when built and call it "good enough..."

My next plans for the Exotic Units mod is to:
1. Redo the entire Artwork library - mostly renaming objects so when this mod is played with other mods, there won't be any texture/model conflicts that some players are complaining about. Not hard at all, but does take time.
2. Reworking the Fireship unit - have got a much cooler version (better animations mostly)
3. Make a few more fixes on the code (a few typos, etc.)

- And of course, add these two units/unit adjustments, once we get them further pinned down.

I'm working on #1 as we speak. Hope to have it done tomorrow. Numbers 2 & 3 will take about 30 minutes.

 

[DracoTheGreat]

Chariot: I think we can just replace the regular chariot archer, as I don't see much use for it. As for the name, I think we can just leave it as chariot.

So, you're saying we can add the "Heavy Charge" promotion to this new unit? I think that's fine. But the Winged Hussars would need a bit more buffs. (I'll get to that later in this reply.)

Glass cannon is the term I was looking for. That's essentially what I want this unit to be.

As for the promotions, I think shock I should be fine, honestly. If you want to add another one, that's completely up to you.

Like I said before, I think we can just replace the regular chariot archer.

Horseman: I think +33% attack bonus against damaged units should be fine. Although, to make it fair to Russia, if they upgrade from a horseman -> Knight -> Cossack, I think it could become +66%, or however much it receives plus the added numbers from upgrading from the Horseman.

Ok, the Winged Hussars now. I think we make them a bit stronger. 32, like you said, should be fine. It's not that much where it would make it OP (or, at least, more than it already is), while still making it a bit stronger.

As for the concept I proposed, I didn't really think it would be that easy to make. So, I guess yeah, shock I and Charge should do.

 

[sman1975]

OK - I'll add these two unit changes to the list. I'm hoping to have V2 ready for release in the next 2-3 days. The code changes will take 1-2, but I'll probably need a full day of testing, given how many changes are going into V2.

If you think of anything else let me know - there's time to add more if needed.

 

[DracoTheGreat]

Do you think it's possible to change the Hunnic Horse Archer so it upgrades into the Frankish Crossbowman? And the Keshik into the Cor- . . . Corrazieri(?) I forget how to spell that. The thing from the renaissance era.