Expansion vs Research: Advice Needed

Publius Turr

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
20
Location
Sydney, Australia
I'm playing on Prince/Continents/Standard or Large Map/Epic/Default number of opponents. Although I've won a couple of games, either by time or Space Race, the usual problem in most games is that by the time I secure my own continent (often using CoL slingshot/courthouses etc), most of my opponents on the other continent are far ahead on the tech tree and ultimately wipe me out. Conversely, if I keep my empire small to boost my research capacity, my opponents use the 'critical mass' of their larger empire to out-produce me in military units and I get wiped out anyway. Any strategies that I can use to improve my chances (aside from playing Pangea maps)?
 
How extensive is your cottage spam? Having a big empire and still maintaining substantial research takes LOTS of commerce, which generally means working lots of cottages.
 
The choice you're positing doesn't make sense to me. One of the main reasons I expand, often through war, is so that I can keep up on research. An additional city with, as zyphyr points out, enough cottages is often equivalent to or better than a library in an existing one.

I also find that the map generator tends to give the AI civs the best locations for peaceful expansion. I'll probably get a good location for the capital but then be faced with tundra, desert, and plains for my 2nd/3rd/4th cities; the AI, on the other hand, always seems to appear surrounded by riverside grassland... "cottage country". ;)

Expand versus research? Tut tut! It's expand in order to research! :D
 
I should have been more precise in my thread title. I think the quandry that I'm facing is that if I expand too quickly I kill my research capacity with excessive city maintenance costs - the cottages take a long time to start bringing in the pesos - but if limit my initial expansion to speed up research, I lack the production muscle to ward off my aggressive out-producing neighbours and those on other continents. One mistake I've made many times is capturing too many cities in the early game when I should have been razing and pillaging more to cut down on city maintenance. But even when my research is 80 +, I seem to find that the civs on the other continent are usually well ahead of me in technology by the middle game.... it makes it very tough to plan any military moves against them.
 
City costs can be cut down with courthouses, Versailles, or the Forbidden Palace. When you start setting up far flung cities you gotta get one of the above three in them or else they get stupidly expensive. Also, make sure your existing cities are doing as well as they can. Make sure you have workers improve every possible tile around a city so that it stays profitable - put down tons of cottages. You never (well, 99.9% of the time) want a city working an unimproved tile.

You can also rebuild the palace in a more central location to cut down on maintenance, since maintenance increases with distance from the capital.

Really though, the cottage thing is what killed me for a while when I first started playing because I had mixes of farms and cottages around my cities. Wrong. With few exceptions (GP farm, specialist economy, etc), ~every~ grassland tile within your cities fat crosses should be cottaged up (grassland because the 2 food allows your city to sustain growth while working the cottage).

For example, when I start a new city I assign a worker to that city. The first thing they do is get any food resources up or build a farm to allow the city to grow faster. Then I get it connected to the empire with a road, then improve other resources, and then cottage the hell out of every remaining square.

Another important point is to not over rely on water tiles. If you're a financial civ and you've got a lighthouse then every coastal or lake tile gives 2F and 3C, which is a great deal early game when compared to a paltry 2F 1C from a grassland cottage. However, by working the cottages you make them grow and make them ridiculously profitable (particularly after Printing Press), gaining you 2F and 7 or 8C from a town, and even a hammer if you run the right civic. So even if water tiles will carry you through the early game, by the mid game you'll be seriously lagging in both tech and wealth unless you've moved onto something more lucrative.
 
well, the overexpansion only happens to me when i'm playing rome (it's so easy to conquer, why would you stop?).
With other civs, i have all the time i need to research to CoL and/or currency (if i must choose, it's currency = better peace treaties ;) + higher yeld ).

My usual way is to conquer a few cities = 1 less opponent, keeping 1 or 2 cities only. Then for the next target, i'll sue for peace + extortion (tech or money!) when units need healing (= average of 2 captured cities at a time). 10 turns of rebuilding (troops!) and improving land make the next run easier and more profitable (improving all over the map in the same time is not possible!)
 
Also I am thinking you are thinking to much in terms of Research slider (like 80% is good and 40% is bad). Remember it's all about how many beakers you produce and how many turns a tech will cost you to research, which realy matters.

Next to that you prob need to work on your 'recovery proces', but without a game it's hard to point out your 'mistakes'.
 
I have no problem expanding to 0% when I get alphabet since I can then build research. As long I don't get stuck in a can only build units only to disband next turn scenario (happened once when playing as Rome, got a high production capital and it only took 1 more turn that a worker to build a settler) I say build on.
 
How many cottages do you really need?

Let's say I have an inland city with a river going through the fat cross, and grassland on 6 river tiles. How many tiles should I turn into farms, and how many should I turn into cottages?

Thank you much.
 
Rabbit_Alex said:
How many cottages do you really need?

Let's say I have an inland city with a river going through the fat cross, and grassland on 6 river tiles. How many tiles should I turn into farms, and how many should I turn into cottages?

Thank you much.
It really depends upon the other tiles.

There's a technique for this. Consider all tiles producing 2 food to be even. Now count up the surplus food, over 2, from all tiles capable of providing it. DO NOT count food from a regular farm--only from pastures and farms on food resources like wheat and rice. A floodplain will provide +1 food, for example, while an irrigated plains wheat tile will provide +3.

Now count up all the tiles with a food deficit. A plains tile is -1, a plains hill is -2. Don't count unworkable tiles like desert and peaks.

Add the two numbers. That will tell you how many farms you need to support the city at its full population. The rest can be cottaged.

Try to remember to locate the farms so that, once you have Civil Service, they will chain-irrigate any tiles that require irrigation.
 
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