ExtraModMod continued

[DuskTreader]

Suggestion: treasure chests should have hidden nationality and be capturable like workers, so if you find someone else's chest you can steal it, and other people can steal yours

 

[DuskTreader]

Also, why don't lizard trophies, spider pens and boar pens count towards the grand menagerie wonder?

EDIT: And scorpion pens

 

[Tielby]

Also, why don't lizard trophies, spider pens and boar pens count towards the grand menagerie wonder?

EDIT: And scorpion pens

None of the "trophies" count toward the Grand Menagerie, which makes sense. Those are not living, caged animals, they're probably heads mounted on walls. Not the same as a menagerie at all. I do agree that spider pens and boar pens should be included, though. I think there might be other animal cages that also don't count, for no reason I can think of.

 

[DuskTreader]

<Weevil, Pickle and Hyde voice> of course my wall-mounted heads are a menagerie! And it's richer than any you'll find in other lands! Its got gorillas and wolves and lizards yes, but you should take a look at my rarer specimens. I know this looks like it came from a human, but it actually came from a centaur! A rare find indeed. And look at this weird horse with a horn! <Weevil, Pickle and Hyde voice/>

In all seriousness, if I can have a lizard unit, why can't I have a lizard pen? There's a number of animals that only have trophies, not pens.

 

[Tielby]

<Weevil, Pickle and Hyde voice> of course my wall-mounted heads are a menagerie! And it's richer than any you'll find in other lands! Its got gorillas and wolves and lizards yes, but you should take a look at my rarer specimens. I know this looks like it came from a human, but it actually came from a centaur! A rare find indeed. And look at this weird horse with a horn! <Weevil, Pickle and Hyde voice/>

In all seriousness, if I can have a lizard unit, why can't I have a lizard pen? There's a number of animals that only have trophies, not pens.

Especially since it's a "great lizard", right? And who wouldn't want to see a giant scorpion?!

OK, just did a comprehensive check.
Elephants and (Great/Giant) Lizards don't have a pen or cage, so are obviously not included in the Grand Menagerie.
Additionally, Boars, Giant Spiders and Scorpions DO have pens or cages, but are not included in the Grand Menagerie.
(I did not include some of the obvious exceptions like Hill Giants and Phoenixes, both of which are technically "Animal".)

 

[DuskTreader]

huh... could I have used Mesmerize Animal on Hill Giants? Missed opportunity

 

[LightAcolyte]

The fire resistance added to the Nomad promotion/effect is not having the intended effect on passability from DAMAGE_FIRE being set for Resist on Malakim units as related to Burning Sands/Flames. The fire resistance given by Orcish, Angel, Demon, Magic Resistant, Resist Fire, Magic Immune and Immune to Fire do all work as intended.

 

[DuskTreader]

Does the advanced diplomacy game option change something about being able to cancel vassal state agreements? My vassal just converted to Ashen Veil and I want to crush them before they summon Hyboream, but when I go to the diplomacy screen I find that I can't cancel the vassalage deal

 

[lfgr]

Suggestion: treasure chests should have hidden nationality and be capturable like workers, so if you find someone else's chest you can steal it, and other people can steal yours

Sounds fun, but I'd have to check which units can see them first.

On the Great Menagerie: These omissions are intentional. Boar pens give food instead of happiness/culture and don't count for the GM, the idea being that boards are more mundane animals (this is affected by my personal bias, of course). Scorpions and Spiders have relatively strong pens already, and also, again subjectively, the don't have the Circus/Menagerie feeling of the other animals.

I think the reason that there is no lizard pen is simply because I didn't have any fitting ideas. Keep in mind the asymmetry is one of the design principles of FfH, so there's no pressing need for a lizard pen. But if you have an idea, let me know.

The fire resistance added to the Nomad promotion/effect is not having the intended effect on passability from DAMAGE_FIRE being set for Resist on Malakim units as related to Burning Sands/Flames. The fire resistance given by Orcish, Angel, Demon, Magic Resistant, Resist Fire, Magic Immune and Immune to Fire do all work as intended.

You need 20% fire resistance, as defined by FEATURE_REQUIRE_RESIST_AMOUNT. Nomad only gives 5%. I should probably add this in the pedia.

Does the advanced diplomacy game option change something about being able to cancel vassal state agreements? My vassal just converted to Ashen Veil and I want to crush them before they summon Hyboream, but when I go to the diplomacy screen I find that I can't cancel the vassalage deal

Is it possible to cancel vassalage in BtS? I thought it's not.

 

[DarkLunaPhantom]

Is it possible to cancel vassalage in BtS? I thought it's not.

Only the vassal can cancel the vassalage deal in certain situations, but master can't.

 

[DuskTreader]

Huh... I feel like I remember cancelling vassalage deals before but I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head. Good to know

Time for #hybridwarfare

Uhh related question: is Blaze one of those spells seen as hostile enough that if you cast it on someone's territory they instantly declare war on you? Asking for an angry army of stymied infernalist-slayers (I suppose I'll find out soon enough)

 

[DuskTreader]

Empirically blaze is not an effective provocation

 

[kvaak]

Yeah, if your vassal ends up hogging your sole blob of iron or mithril you'll want scorch. Which, appropriately enough, is often available from vassals since the AI loves the terraforming/utility mana types.

On another note, I just had spirit guide dump experience on a slave. Slave trade edict was in effect if that makes a difference. Doviello might be able to make use of said exp, sadly most civs (including mine) aren't Doviello.

I also found out domination can target workers. I guess it could be intentional, but losing access to a tier 3 spell because a non-combat unit resisted it seems a bit harsh. Unless they can't resist it?

E: Domination also seems to just... whiff a lot of the time? I don't lose the ability to cast it to nothing seems to resist it, but I don't gain any units either.

 

[Tielby]

On another note, I just had spirit guide dump experience on a slave. Slave trade edict was in effect if that makes a difference. Doviello might be able to make use of said exp, sadly most civs (including mine) aren't Doviello.

I also found out domination can target workers. I guess it could be intentional, but losing access to a tier 3 spell because a non-combat unit resisted it seems a bit harsh. Unless they can't resist it?

E: Domination also seems to just... whiff a lot of the time? I don't lose the ability to cast it to nothing seems to resist it, but I don't gain any units either.

I wonder, would mud golems be able to get advances if they inherited XP? They have a defensive strength, so that could be handy. Not sure what advances would make a worker more efficient. Mobility, I guess?

Domination is hugely powerful, just also hugely unreliable. I've successfully Dominated several World Units (in past versions) and also used it to gain priest units from other religions without ever actually, you know, switching to those religions. Ring of Fire is one of my favorites!

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Whether a unit can use xp for promotiona depends on what promotios are available for it's unitcombat type. Those with no unitcombat can never purchase promotions. Barnaxus is the only golem with a unitcombat. Slaves and workers have no unitcombat in vanilla FfH2 and most modmods, although I gave them a civilian unitcombat in my modmod.

 

[t4lon]

There is specific event that gives you manes as a non Infernal civ also gives the cities the effect of demonic citizens when they are added to city population. Assuming this is not intented to happen? It's pretty fitting to my game thought

 

[UnderKingDuck]

A few things since me and my friend have been getting back into FFH. We noticed there where a ton of OOS issue when the Grigori use their world spell. I mean I used it late in that game, but I think from getting so many great people at once it cause the game to go OOS.

Also any chance the banner could maybe get more flavor. Like one of my friends, who I lost contact to, made it so the banner farms upgrade to something like a fort which gave a little more food and a hammer. I mean I'm not saying you have to do that, but I would like them to have a little more. Though making it so you can make economic buildings with the Crusade civic would be nice. I really never really liked that at all.

In regards to the clans, I find it funny how much they can snowball with a few of their mechanics. However the only thing I kinda wish would be done is to prevent them from getting double settlers. It honestly feels really strong once you get that Warrens. My friend has been screaming pretty much that clans with forts is too strong, but I have not really tried it myself.

Other then that any chance maybe one day we can see a white hand religion or maybe even a small religion from the clans. It's weird to want to worship ashen veil as the clans. But yeah other then that we are all enjoying the mod and are really happy to see it is still getting updates!

Edit: I was commenting on the clans based on a classical era start. I do feel since they start in jungle or have a bias to it, they should start with the ability to chop jungle at least. Also they should get double drown when they train them, idk why they are considered a sea unit. Can that be changed?

 

[DuskTreader]

I think Clan of Embers has already been pretty heavily nerfed from base FFH. Their world spell no longer converts non-orcs, and revolutions makes it very hard to hold cities you conquer in an early rush strategy (although the latest patch makes revolutions a lot milder)

 

[UnderKingDuck]

I think Clan of Embers has already been pretty heavily nerfed from base FFH. Their world spell no longer converts non-orcs, and revolutions makes it very hard to hold cities you conquer in an early rush strategy (although the latest patch makes revolutions a lot milder)

That is provided you are using revolutions. I don't use it, it's a good idea, but I don't like how it is implemented personally.

 

[lfgr]

We noticed there where a ton of OOS issue when the Grigori use their world spell. I mean I used it late in that game, but I think from getting so many great people at once it cause the game to go OOS.

Do you happen to have a savegame from before the OOS happens? It doesn't seem to be easily reproducible.

Also any chance the banner could maybe get more flavor. Like one of my friends, who I lost contact to, made it so the banner farms upgrade to something like a fort which gave a little more food and a hammer. I mean I'm not saying you have to do that, but I would like them to have a little more. Though making it so you can make economic buildings with the Crusade civic would be nice. I really never really liked that at all.

In regards to the clans, I find it funny how much they can snowball with a few of their mechanics. However the only thing I kinda wish would be done is to prevent them from getting double settlers. It honestly feels really strong once you get that Warrens. My friend has been screaming pretty much that clans with forts is too strong, but I have not really tried it myself.

Other then that any chance maybe one day we can see a white hand religion or maybe even a small religion from the clans. It's weird to want to worship ashen veil as the clans.

This is all out of scope for my work on this mod, unfortunately.

I do feel since they start in jungle or have a bias to it, they should start with the ability to chop jungle at least.

I think it was planned to give them +1 food in jungle to offset the bad starts a little bit. This requires some work to implement properly, but I will probably do it eventually.

Also they should get double drown when they train them, idk why they are considered a sea unit. Can that be changed?

Warrens only affect living units; the description is wrong, I'll update it for the next version.