Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Alzara]

Do the warrior event for the chislev like we chatted about

Al

 

[DharmaMcLaren]

"The villagers claim to have found a witch"

If playing as the Svartalfar, you can recruit her as an Adept with Shadow 1.

 

[MaxAstro]

The Hippus seem to still be able to build Meskwaki...

Also, I would like to make a comment/suggestion about the Mazatl, specifically their priests: They have to put a decent amount of work into getting their priests for not a whole lot of return. Admittedly this is currently balanced by their economy being overpowered, but I would like to see their priests be a bit more useful. Specifically, it would be nice if their priests could learn Command and Inquisition (They can't because they lack Channeling 2), and they would really benefit from having High Priests of some sort. Oh, and on a more specific note, could the Priests of Omorr be given Spell Extention 1? It would make Floating Eye MUCH more useful, by allowing the eye to rebase and scout in the same turn (The main use of Floating Eye, IMO).

It just seems like currently their priests are greatly overshadowed by the Wyvern Gaurdians and their economic advantagesl.

 

[Vehem]

The Hippus seem to still be able to build Meskwaki...

Ta. The hero thing is rapidly turning into my personal Acheron (most annoying bug ever) - and it was basically due to a bit of a mess when auto updating for one on the patches. Meskwaki/Hippus sorted now in anycase.

Also, I would like to make a comment/suggestion about the Mazatl, specifically their priests: They have to put a decent amount of work into getting their priests for not a whole lot of return. Admittedly this is currently balanced by their economy being overpowered, but I would like to see their priests be a bit more useful. Specifically, it would be nice if their priests could learn Command and Inquisition (They can't because they lack Channeling 2), and they would really benefit from having High Priests of some sort.

They're mostly designed to be a support choice instead of a primary unit - a few priests alongside other units can really help out (Medic duties, scouting duties, cure duties) and being the only units that can still transmute whenever they like (Kalshekk) is also quite a benefit. Their religions aren't really based on converting the enemy (command) as they developed in isolation to the rest of the world.

Oh, and on a more specific note, could the Priests of Omorr be given Spell Extention 1? It would make Floating Eye MUCH more useful, by allowing the eye to rebase and scout in the same turn (The main use of Floating Eye, IMO).

Good plan - done.

It just seems like currently their priests are greatly overshadowed by the Wyvern Gaurdians and their economic advantagesl.

Mostly by design too. Wyvern Guardians supported by conventional military for the armies, priests for support. Strong economy (was too strong, might be better now) to support semi-peaceful development.

 

[DharmaMcLaren]

The Barbarians can build Karrlson. Not sure if anyone had said that.

 

[Vehem]

The Barbarians can build Karrlson. Not sure if anyone had said that.

Aye - he just gets bored with all the studying and goes on a rampage sometimes. "RAWR - KARRLSON SMASH HUMIES BIGTIME! GRAWL!"

(fixed)

 

[Arctic Circle]

For Archos, how about 'Calabim refugees' option of 'feed them to the mother's children' to recive a few free baby spiders?

 

[Slvynn]

For Archos, how about 'Calabim refugees' option of 'feed them to the mother's children' to recive a few free baby spiders?

nice ,i like this one

 

[xienwolf]

If you are interested in never having the "Meswaki buildable by Hippus" type of problems, I just posted a UnitClassInfos & CivilizationInfos in the Cosmetic Issues thread which address the problem. Quite a simple workaround really, so I am wondering if I had changed the DLL to make it possible and forgot about it, or if it is just that nobody has every tried doing it that way.

 

[Good Sauce]

While city sets are being worked on, does anyone else think the Hippus palace needs to be changed. I don't know about anyone else but I think the current one looks horribly out of place. I just can't imagine mercenary horsemen building this massive marble palace

 

[Perkin Warbeck]

Heya, downloaded this fantastic mod earlier on this week and I've been totally unable to put it down, so firstly I want to so well done it amazing! My ex and I have played 3-4 games now this week and we've totally fallen in love with both of the lizard races. Although I've had a search around I can't see anyone else asking about this.

Is there any way either team can grow jungles? In one game I was gifted a few Priest of Leaves to help bloom and watch as they slowly turn into jugles- but as we're either good or evil we can't get druids (not that they bloom anyway) So I was wondering- is the lack of terraforming part of the balance for the race? I know it gradually changes over time but only if the terrain is grasslands & rivers. It makes conquest more difficult and means I've tended to turtle a bit rather than go out and seek resources & land.
Even if there's a spell from the divine line that adds a chance to grow jungles from a druid equivalent tech it'd be swell.

 

[Vehem]

While city sets are being worked on, does anyone else think the Hippus palace needs to be changed. I don't know about anyone else but I think the current one looks horribly out of place. I just can't imagine mercenary horsemen building this massive marble palace

Have you seen anything elsewhere that might fit better? I'll have a look around and see what I can find (anything that has already been produced is likely to be better than what I can come up with from scratch). I think I reached the limits of my Blender talents with the Balseraph tents...

Heya, downloaded this fantastic mod earlier on this week and I've been totally unable to put it down, so firstly I want to so well done it amazing! My ex and I have played 3-4 games now this week and we've totally fallen in love with both of the lizard races. Although I've had a search around I can't see anyone else asking about this.

Is there any way either team can grow jungles? In one game I was gifted a few Priest of Leaves to help bloom and watch as they slowly turn into jugles- but as we're either good or evil we can't get druids (not that they bloom anyway) So I was wondering- is the lack of terraforming part of the balance for the race? I know it gradually changes over time but only if the terrain is grasslands & rivers. It makes conquest more difficult and means I've tended to turtle a bit rather than go out and seek resources & land.
Even if there's a spell from the divine line that adds a chance to grow jungles from a druid equivalent tech it'd be swell.

Glad you're enjoying it.

Lizard-forming basically works like this...

• Any plains tile in your land has a very small chance to become grassland each turn
• Any grassland in your land has a better chance of turning to Wetlands, and that chance is multiplied by 5 if the tile is next to a river
• Any Wetland tile can spawn either a swamp or a jungle spontaeneously
• If the tile already contains a forest/ancient forest, the chance to spawn jungle is multiplied by 5 (quicker to convert existing forest).

Back to the original question - there aren't any ways to create jungles, but you can create swamps on wetland terrain (spring). In almost all cases you'll find life much easier if you settle along riversides. The Creation mapscript is actually great for this as it uses rivers as part of its layout design algorithm (if I'm not mistaken, every region must have a river).

Failing that - just stay away from deserts (not that it is detrimental to the lizards, they just never benefit from it).

===

Just as a quick warning though - the Mazatl have had a slight "reworking" for the next version (released Monday if no testing issues this weekend) due to potentially obscene early-mid game commerce. "Lost Lands" have been moved back to a slightly later tech, but they've also gained additional trade route support in the form of the "Barterhouse" - as no one seems to comment much on the fact they can generate hammers/food from trade routes (suggesting that feature is underused - it was supposed to be one of the main features of that economy). Lost Lands has no additional commerce from swamp, but does grant additional trade routes.

Each route initially provides 0.5 Hammers/Food, rounding down. That means to start with, all the hammers/food are rounded down. If you manage to boost your trade route value by 100% (Harbour, Inn, Tavern, Barterhouse, Capital, City Size etc), each route will provide 1 additional hammer/food. In practice, it's fairly easy to get your capital to this sort of state, but takes a little longer for other cities. There's a definite incentive to go for the "trade" techs if you're playing them as a builder style. Equally though, they can still be played as a "Wyvern-Guardian" based civ, though the research won't come as easily as it used to in that case.

 

[mahazel]

released Monday if no testing issues this weekend

It`s sounds greate, because I`m going to have really busy weekend and I`ll have the "new version" light at the end of the "working" tunnel

About updates, is it possible to give Cualli hero (argh, I don`t remember his name, but he is my favorite hero in all FFH) the sword with +2 poison damage instead of normal poison damage? His model has really good looking sword, and I think it should be another powerfull item.

Edit:
I remember that long ago someone mentioned about snakes models, so maybe add giant snake as unit, and do the event which spawn a dangerous snakes deep in the swamp/jungle? I was thinking about Hydra, but it may be too difficult.

 

[Demus]

Just as a quick warning though - the Mazatl have had a slight "reworking" for the next version (released Monday if no testing issues this weekend) due to potentially obscene early-mid game commerce. "Lost Lands" have been moved back to a slightly later tech, but they've also gained additional trade route support in the form of the "Barterhouse" - as no one seems to comment much on the fact they can generate hammers/food from trade routes (suggesting that feature is underused - it was supposed to be one of the main features of that economy). Lost Lands has no additional commerce from swamp, but does grant additional trade routes.

Each route initially provides 0.5 Hammers/Food, rounding down. That means to start with, all the hammers/food are rounded down. If you manage to boost your trade route value by 100% (Harbour, Inn, Tavern, Barterhouse, Capital, City Size etc), each route will provide 1 additional hammer/food. In practice, it's fairly easy to get your capital to this sort of state, but takes a little longer for other cities. There's a definite incentive to go for the "trade" techs if you're playing them as a builder style. Equally though, they can still be played as a "Wyvern-Guardian" based civ, though the research won't come as easily as it used to in that case.

i've been using this quite a bit, but there's a good reason noone is mentioning it: +1-5 additional food and production in your town is marginal at best compared to the 5 food 1 hammer 3 commerce tiles you get in over half of your BFC's. With the changes, the food is needed though: to get the highest benefit from lost lands, you'll need quite a large empire, possibly spanning over half the map (an couple of island cities at the far end of the world would seriously do wonders for your economy back home)

 

[Vehem]

i've been using this quite a bit, but there's a good reason noone is mentioning it: +1-5 additional food and production in your town is marginal at best compared to the 5 food 1 hammer 3 commerce tiles you get in over half of your BFC's. With the changes, the food is needed though: to get the highest benefit from lost lands, you'll need quite a large empire, possibly spanning over half the map (an couple of island cities at the far end of the world would seriously do wonders for your economy back home)

Aye - I'll take a good look at it over the weekend - I may actually make it higher than 0.5. The "super-swamps" should be tamed a little now anyway, so hopefully the trade-routes will start to seem a little more interesting.

 

[Ekolite]

Vehem, could you possibly re-do the Sheaim art as it is described in the Os-Gabella story in the thread Words? Words WORDS! (Lore section) I thought that was a very interesting and lore-fitting interpretation of the sheaim population, after all I've always thought its unlikely that the average butcher and seamstress are bent on bringing armageddon, only the mages on top. Your city art looks a bit too generally evil for my liking .

 

[Perkin Warbeck]

• Any plains tile in your land has a very small chance to become grassland each turn
• Any grassland in your land has a better chance of turning to Wetlands, and that chance is multiplied by 5 if the tile is next to a river
• Any Wetland tile can spawn either a swamp or a jungle spontaeneously
• If the tile already contains a forest/ancient forest, the chance to spawn jungle is multiplied by 5 (quicker to convert existing forest).

Back to the original question - there aren't any ways to create jungles, but you can create swamps on wetland terrain (spring). In almost all cases you'll find life much easier if you settle along riversides. The Creation mapscript is actually great for this as it uses rivers as part of its layout design algorithm (if I'm not mistaken, every region must have a river).

Thanks for explaining the fine details of the system- so far every game I've played there's always been one grasslands tile in my big fat cross that refuses to convert- even after 700 turns!
I always play creation maps anyway so I'm used to living along rivers true but have you considered allowing the lizard races access to the bloom spell somehow then?



===

but they've also gained additional trade route support in the form of the "Barterhouse" - as no one seems to comment much on the fact they can generate hammers/food from trade routes (suggesting that feature is underused - it was supposed to be one of the main features of that economy). Lost Lands has no additional commerce from swamp, but does grant additional trade routes.

Now I know I'm going to sound like a simpleton here but how is the feature underused? What if anything would you have to do to make use of it?

 

[Demus]

it's not underused, it just wasn't that significant compared to the massive 40 pop cities you could get with the swamps+lost lands happiness in the earlier versions of the mod

 

[Vehem]

Very quick update before nap-time - testing was mostly ok - got a few things I want to rework, but on the whole it plays pretty well. Watch this space.

 

[rief_s]

Just as a quick warning though - the Mazatl have had a slight "reworking" for the next version (released Monday if no testing issues this weekend) due to potentially obscene early-mid game commerce. "Lost Lands" have been moved back to a slightly later tech, but they've also gained additional trade route support in the form of the "Barterhouse" - as no one seems to comment much on the fact they can generate hammers/food from trade routes (suggesting that feature is underused - it was supposed to be one of the main features of that economy). Lost Lands has no additional commerce from swamp, but does grant additional trade routes.

Each route initially provides 0.5 Hammers/Food, rounding down. That means to start with, all the hammers/food are rounded down. If you manage to boost your trade route value by 100% (Harbour, Inn, Tavern, Barterhouse, Capital, City Size etc), each route will provide 1 additional hammer/food. In practice, it's fairly easy to get your capital to this sort of state, but takes a little longer for other cities. There's a definite incentive to go for the "trade" techs if you're playing them as a builder style. Equally though, they can still be played as a "Wyvern-Guardian" based civ, though the research won't come as easily as it used to in that case.

I have try this feature and it's good for your new city. It doesn't give much effect in early game when you don't have much trade. But in mid game, your new city will have immediate 3 +1food +1 hammer +2com. And I can manage to get my new city 5 +3food +3hammer +6com. Is it overpower ?