Thought I would post some ideas to help fill out some units for the various human factions. I've never played tabletop and so don't know any of the actual "official" units, but my impression is that none of these guys ever had their own armybooks and that there was very little "official" canon for the civs, so most of this is drawn from implementing the general theme into this mod. Some of the names can definitely be changed to something with more flavour.
Most of these are high-tech units, it would be nice to see some more factional variation at lower levels too.
Unfortunately the art requirements for all this will be pretty high, but that’s inevitable really.
To start with, consider the Empire.
Handgunners (10)
Cavalry (10)
Knights (10)
Griffon (3)
Pegasus (5)
Halbardiers (unlim, strength 6, 1 first strike, 25 melee 50 mounted)
Great cannon (5)
Ironclad (3)
War chariot (5)
Crossbowmen (10)
Longbowmen (10)
Mercenary (5)
Hired Assasin (3)
Inqusitor (5)
Steamtank (3)
Greatswords (3)
Access to all 8 colleges.
Actually I think the Empire needs a UU knight. Maybe Reiksguard, give them a bonus to melee units or something.
Estalia (theme: reconquista Spain)
Spoiler:
Estalian Inquisitor (replaces Inquisitor). Strength 7, move 1, starts with Lore of Fire 1 (can’t learn higher level, no channeling). 50% death resistance. Burn the heretics!
Fanatic warrior (National UU, limit 5, requires Fanaticism. Strength 6/3, no metals improvement, no war weariness incurred by death, cost 25 hammers. Very very cheap mediocre assault unit.
Estalian Jinetes (Replaces Horsearcher Warband), Strength 5/5 with metals improvement, 3 moves, normal cavalry terrain penalties, +25% vs melee units, 1 first strike, +50% vs siege weapons, flank attack, +10% vs chariots. Javelin armed light cavalry.
Estalian knights (replaces knights). Same as regular knights, but extra +1 first strike (javelins) – Reconquista armies focused around cavalry.
Great Galleon (replaces Ship of the Line, same as Ship of the Line except 4 cargo space rather than 2). Think Spanish armada.
Tercios Pikemen (replaces Pikemen). Regular pikemen, but +1 strength. Spanish pikemen were widely renowned.
Conquistadores (requires Navigation, Advanced Smithing). National UU, limit 5, strength 7/6, 2 moves, uses metals, gets defensive bonuses unlike other cavalry, +50% vs siege units.
Access to: handgunners, cavalry, knights, royal guard, cannon, crossbowmen, mercenary, hired assassin, wind magic colleges.
Can’t think of any obvious monster replacement or war chariot replacement.
Tilean Galley (replaces Trireme), strength 3, 3 moves (no galley bonus, doesn’t count as galley for trireme’s bonus), cannot enter ocean.
War Galley (National UU, requires Navigation). Strength 7, 5 moves, requires shipyard, requires copper or iron, cannot enter ocean, can bombard city defences 6%, can barrage unit 20% strength range 1 (no collateral).
Arquebusiers (replaces handgunners). Superior gunners, +1 first strike, starts with Pinch.
Assassin (same as Dark Elf buildable assassin).
Verezzo Crossbowman (replaces crossbowman). Same as regular crossbowman, but +1 first strike (think Genovese Crossbowmen).
Bombard (replaces cannon). Same as regular cannon but starts with Accuracy promotion.
Royal bodyguard (replaces Royal Guard). Same as regular Royal Guard but +2 defence strength. All those assassination attempts mean they develop better guardsman.
Access to knights, mercenary, hired assassin, cavalry, war chariot, wind magic colleges. No access to Horsearcher.
No obvious monster replacements.
For Ind and Araby purposes for magical flying units, change Flight tech so that it requires Advanced Engineering OR Master of Winds. So elemental magic units with a magical flying unit can get this without pursuing an engineering tech path.
Ind (theme: India)
Spoiler:
War elephants (requires Stirrups) National UU, limit 10. Strength 8, no metal bonus, move 1, +50% vs mounted units, +25% vs chariot, +10% vs melee. Standard mounted terrain penalties.
Elephant knights (requires monster bonding, tournaments) Cannot be built, upgraded from a level 4+ knight or war elephant. Stats same as regular knight, except +50% vs mounted units.
Ind War Chariot. Same as regular War chariot but +1 first strike.
Vimana (replaces Gyrocoptor). Requires Flight. Same as gyrocoptor, but no bonus vs armored units, no ability to bombard city defences, but +25% vs melee units. (Mythical flying chariot)
Someone who knows something about Hindu mythology can probably find some interesting monsters (high level Ind should be more monstery, less techy than western factions). Some kinds of demony monsters? Can Ind go chaos? Maybe they should have the choice to go either way (doesn’t the fluff have a big 2 factions of Ind, one Chaos the other anti-Chaos)?
Access to knights, mercenary, hired assassin, war chariot, longbowmen (not crossbowmen), royal guard, elemental magic. No access to handgunners, cavalry. Maybe boltthrowers rather than cannons.
Araby (theme: crusades-era Mameluks/Arabia, Arabian Nights)
Spoiler:
Camel riders. Replaces Light Cavalry Same as light cavalry, except +25% vs mounted units, 25% desert strength, treat desert as roads, but only 2 moves.
Ghazi fanatics. (National UU, limit 5, requires fanaticism). Strength 6/3, no metal bonus, moves 1, death doesn’t cause war weariness, cost 25 hammers. Very cheap throwaways.
Summoning chamber, Unique building (replaces Breeding Pit). +1 unhealth, +1 unhappy, +3 research. (Dealing with elemental spirits helps you learn their secrets).
Dao (replaces pegasus, limit 5). Bestial unit, strength 5, 1 move, starts with Earth 1.
Djinni (replaces griffon, limit 3). Bestial unit, Strength 7+2 electrical, 3 moves, flying, cannot enter ocean, requires summoning chamber. Starts with Air1 promotion (can’t learn higher air magic).
Efreeti (requires Monster bonding) National UU, limit 3. Bestial unit. Strength 10+2 fire, 3 moves, cannot enter ocean, flying, requires summoning chamber. Starts with Fire2 promotion (can’t learn higher fire magic)
Magic carpet knights (ok, this needs a new name). Requires Tournaments, Flight. National UU (limit 4). Cannot be built, upgrades from level 4+ unit (knight). Requires joust. Knight with 3 moves, flying, +1 strength.
Dhow (replaces trireme). Same as trireme, but 2 cargo space rather than 0.
Access to handgunners, cannons, cavalry, mercenary, hired assassin, royal guard, longbowmen (no crossbowmen), war chariot, knight, elemental magic.
Cathay (theme: fantasy Imperial china)
Spoiler:
Eastern dragon (replaces red dragon, requires Aerie, requires breeding pit). Same as red dragon but no flying.
Eastern Ogre (replaces troll). Requires Breeding Grounds (troll doesn’t). Strength 6, can use metals, 1 move. No regeneration.
Ogre Mage (replaces griffon, limit 3). Requires breeding grounds, requires breeding pit. Strength 8, can use metals. Starts with Earth1, Fire1, Air1. Can't learn higher level magics.
Shaolin monk. Natioanl UU (limit 5) Requires Priesthood. 6 strength, 1 move, no metal bonuses, +25% vs melee units.
Junk (replaces galley). Same as galley, but can enter ocean. Think early Chinese explorers. Might need to enable barbarian naval units or have sea monsters generated as part of map scripts (like in early FFH builds) for this to be feasible, so that exploration is still very risky and you’re going to lose the unit as soon as a monster finds it).
Army of Clay. (National UU, limit 10). Requires Master of the Earth, construction. Strength 8, no weapon bonuses, 1 move, death does not cause war weariness, cannot earn experience. (Think Luuchirp golems).
Cathay Crossbows. (Replaces Crossbow, limit 10) Same as regular crossbow, but inflicts collateral damage either in combat, barrage or both.
Cathay Longbowmen (replace Longbows, limit 10). Same as regular crossbow, but immune to first strikes. Song dynasty Longbowmen wore 30kg of armor!! Craziness, considering western archers were almost always unarmored or lightly armored.
Access to Knight, Cannon, Handgunner, pikemen elemental magic. War chariot doesn’t feel in flavor.
No access to Cavalry.
Nippon (theme: Feudal Shogunate Japan)
Spoiler:
Ninja (replaces hired assassin). Same as hired assassin, but -20% city attack rather than -50%. (Note, I think all assassins need -1 strength relative to where they are now).
Samurai (replaces Royal guard), limit 5 not 3. Strength 8/9, gains metal bonus, +25% vs melee.
Ashigaru spearmen (replaces Militia Spearman). Same as regular spearmen, but +100% vs mounted units rather than +50%. Improved spearmen, but no access to pikeman.
Kensai. Unique National UU, limit 3, requires Advanced Smithing. Strength 4, can use metals, 1 move, +100% vs hero, +50% vs beast units.
Brain tired, can’t think of any more right now.
Access to handgunners, cannon, cavalry, longbowmen, elemental magic.
No access to Horsearcher, crossbow, war chariot., pikemen.
*Edit* Fixed Ogre mage.
*Edit2* Also, I think the Empire Halberd should probably be limited to 10, like Pikemen for other factions, given how much it dominates Militia Spearmen and Swordsmen. There are 2 versions of it at the moment that show up in the tech screens (both identical).
*Edit3* Changed Araby monsters.
Jus so ya know, all of the units are from the WH army books. WHFB is based off the WH boardgame, which uses miniatures and stuff. So, any units that aren't in the army books are prolly NOT gonna go in the mod. However, the armybooks say lil bout how their str, movement, etc. should affect gameplay in BTS. So, maybe refocus some of the stuff to fit that.
My impression was that for the human factions above, there are no army books to base off, so there do not exist units in the tabletop game to implement into the mod. Nonetheless, they need a bunch of interesting units to make them fun to play with/against in the mod. Is that not correct? I don't see army lists for these factions on the site you linked to.
Not being familiar with the well-supported factions (basically, all the others) for which army lists/minatures do exist, I deliberately didn't add any suggestions for these.
My impression was that for the human factions above, there are no army books to base off, so there do not exist units in the tabletop game to implement into the mod. Nonetheless, they need a bunch of interesting units to make them fun to play with/against in the mod. Is that not correct? I don't see army lists for these factions on the site you linked to.
Well, the reason for that is that certain factions are no longer bein sold by Games Workshops. But there are old armybooks for them, and the WH team obviously has those old armybooks. So, it's still all comin from the armybooks.
Which of Nippon, Cathay, Ind, Araby, Tilea and Estalia are there army books for? I know there was some old Araby stuff and various dogs of war units, but the others?
Which of Nippon, Cathay, Ind, Araby, Tilea and Estalia are there army books for? I know there was some old Araby stuff and various dogs of war units, but the others?
Idk. I don't have the army books. Ask the team. I jus know that all the factions, least I was told so, are based off of the army books. And I think that site I gave the link for is a useful resource.
War elephants (requires Stirrups) National UU, limit 10. Strength 8, no metal bonus, move 1, +50% vs mounted units, +25% vs chariot, +10% vs melee. Standard mounted terrain penalties.
Elephant knights (requires monster bonding, tournaments) Cannot be built, upgraded from a level 4+ knight or war elephant. Stats same as regular knight, except +50% vs mounted units.
Ind War Chariot. Same as regular War chariot but +1 first strike.
Vimana (replaces Gyrocoptor). Requires Flight. Same as gyrocoptor, but no bonus vs armored units, no ability to bombard city defences, but +25% vs melee units. (Mythical flying chariot)
Someone who knows something about Hindu mythology can probably find some interesting monsters (high level Ind should be more monstery, less techy than western factions). Some kinds of demony monsters? Can Ind go chaos? Maybe they should have the choice to go either way (doesn’t the fluff have a big 2 factions of Ind, one Chaos the other anti-Chaos)?
Access to knights, mercenary, hired assassin, war chariot, longbowmen (not crossbowmen), royal guard, elemental magic. No access to handgunners, cavalry. Maybe boltthrowers rather than cannons.
i once found a brilliant fan-made history for ind, and it was great, ive since lost the link but can remember some of what was there. the basic jist is that Ind was ruled by a caliphat confederacy (i think thats what it was called) and the majority of people were peasants and lowerclass civilians. they worshipped the 1001 gods, which are roumered to be another face for the plethora of chaos gods. eventually a mysterious warrior appeared to one of the powerful Caliphats and warned them that they are being fooled and worshipping chaos, not the gods that they think they believe in. the caliphat rejected this and chased the warrior away. (this warrior had a VERY unusual name, i wont even pretend i can remember it, but ill definately try find that link again, cause he will make a perfect Ind hero.) i forget the chain of events that lead up to this next bit, but it results in this mysterious warrior being blessed by one of the true gods of Ind, and growing into a giant with electric blue skin and inhumane abilities. then the chaos gods began to invade Ind and a section of the Indic people that worshiped chaos and had succumbed attacked from inside, and the caliphats were terriried, their elephant knights and warrirors fell like wheat. then the mysterious warrior reappeared and slew the entire frontal force of the chaos horde by himself. the Indic people rejoiced and with new found moral pushed chaos back from the heart of Ind. ever since then however Ind has been waring against chaos.
my theory is that the chaos hordes that are mentioned are beastmen from the hinterlands of khuresh (south of cathay, east of ind.)
Some kinds of demony monsters? Can Ind go chaos? Maybe they should have the choice to go either way (doesn’t the fluff have a big 2 factions of Ind, one Chaos the other anti-Chaos)?
Or, if they don't manage to found one, they might go with whichever they manage to get access to first.
Maybe start them as Neutral, and then have them convert to Lawful or Chaotic depending on which religion they adopt.
Going chaos removes their access to elementalist magics, going chaos gives access to some demons and chaos magics; create some Ind-specific monster/demons appropriate to Hindu mythology (or Indian-based fantasy staples, like multi-armed nagas) instead of using whatever chaos demons are accessed by Norsca, Kurgans, Chaos dwarves and Hung.
thats a very nice looking gyrocopter replacement. make it have much less attack strength, an extra cargo and ability to teleport long distances. national limit of 1.
Or, if they don't manage to found one, they might go with whichever they manage to get access to first.
Maybe start them as Neutral, and then have them convert to Lawful or Chaotic depending on which religion they adopt.
Going chaos removes their access to elementalist magics, going chaos gives access to some demons and chaos magics; create some Ind-specific monster/demons appropriate to Hindu mythology (or Indian-based fantasy staples, like multi-armed nagas) instead of using whatever chaos demons are accessed by Norsca, Kurgans, Chaos dwarves and Hung.
thats a very nice looking gyrocopter replacement. make it have much less attack strength, an extra cargo and ability to teleport long distances. national limit of 1.
AI probably will never understand a teleporting transport unit.... but yeah, thats an interesting implementation of it.
The gyrocoptor itself probably needs some changes too; as it is its mostly just a very research-intensive griffon. The armored bonus will almost never come into effect, and the bombardment isn't great as long as it can still be attacked by ground units. Maybe give it a really really high withdraw rate?
I'd consider making it function like aircraft rather than a helicoptor.
Any thoughts on other factions? I think the Estalian Inquisitor and Jinetes, Tilean War Galley, elephant knights, arabian genies and Kensai (sword saint) are worth thinking about in particular.
Ploep:
Would it be useful if at some stage I went through these army books and the existing tech tree and come up with design documents for units for all of these races?
I don't want to spend the time on it if you've already got plans or if you're not likely to use them.
Also, any thoughts on current suggestions?
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it was one of my favourites too.
