Final Frontier: Problems & Issues (Post-3.13 Update Available)

Are those Omega PDS's in your city?

It used to be that whatever you could build (omega pds) then the pirates coult build as well (omega destroyer)

no, they're ordinary PDS; you can compare them with the HP they have (usually the green bar is tiny, while for PDS it's usually HUGE, but like they're Omega, they have the same size)




@Jon, i remembered one more stuff that bothers me: when i try to build a road (Alt+R) to a uncolonized star system, it gives me the planet list instead of starting building the road; and i have to Alt+R it to a next tile; this is annoying :sad:


i just created a game to prove you that Omega Barbarians came waaay to early 180 turns or I (tech-leading) have Omega Ships (i don't even have Alpha!!!) also it came that "late" (it usually later, but i usually play FF in really low difficulties and therefore i expanded less and therefore i only found one now...)

Here's a screenie and the attachment at the end of the post:

Spoiler :


To know the exact game settings i played (an playing) with:

Spoiler :




EDIT: Just noticed that colony ships and advocates (and others non-combat ships) start with 4 prestige with the Brotherhood

EDIT2: Just noticed a OMEGA BATTLESHIP :)wow: :run: :hide: :help: :suicide: !!!) is near me (though in the Mini-Map, in the other side of the Universe...) and AFAIK only now New Earth started building Alpha PDS; this TOTALLY unbalances the game! (i haven't raging barbs). Use the WB to find it!
 
Now why has all this talk about Omega Battleships given me the idea to create a "Sink the Bismark!" scenario for FF?
 
If you have a save right before the ship is created that would be particularly useful. ;) In the meantime, I can take a look at that one.

Jon
 
Just looked in for the 1st time, so I havn't read all the thread.

Question: is there an update for FF? And if so where? 1st page of this thread?

Would like to get the updates.

Thanks for the Mod Mr.Shafer. :thumbsup:

JosEPh :)
 
An update to FF is included in patch 3.13 for BtS.
 
i don't... :(

you can play a bit more and eventually you'll find any other Omega barb...
Right, I was able to find the problem and fix it (although I still don't know what caused it ;)), so thanks. :)

If you guys want an updated version of the mod prior to the patch with a few fixes, then you can download this version of CvFinalFrontierEvents, and extract this ZIP into your "Civ 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Final Frontier\Assets\Python" directory. Let me know if you have any problems. :)

Jon

Edit: Removed File, put it in the first post of this thread
 
I've updated the first post in this thread and moved the download there, so anyone interested in the few fixes I've made should look there. :)

Jon
 
Thank you kind sir! :D

JosEPh
 
Just finished a game with a friend who had a love affair for PDS.
And it has made me realise, by spamming PDS you can survive practically anything.
These units are far too cheap for the amount of power they have they need to have either their cost increased or their power decreased in my opinion.
What does everybody else think? PDS need a nerf or they fine as they are?
 
Hey, I found a few problems while playing recently.

I've been playing online with friends against AI. The three of us in a team against the AI who aren't in teams. Not sure if this is relevant or not.

All settings standard, except influence and time victory are turned off.

First problem we found was that the world map would briefly centre, a few turns into the game, showing us our position in the galaxy. I thought this was because we were all far away from each other, but the map went back to its usual uncentered self a few turns later.

Second problem. The turn counter for research at the top was out of sync with the one in the bottom right next to our scores. For example, the counter at the top would say 3 turns and the one at the bottom would say 4.

Third and probably largest problem - Starbase culture. We were playing a game and our starbases cultural bounderies suddenly just vanished which denied us access to all our resources. We weren't in anarchy, or at war or anything like that. I'm thinking this could be some kind of espionage mission, but I couldn't find anything in the civlopedia about it. Also, we didn't receive any kind of on screen prompt. They all went back to normal next turn which is odd as well.

Sorry for the brief post, but we're going to play some more FF now. :p

If I run into any of this stuff again, I'll take screens and add them to this thread.
 
Just finished a game with a friend who had a love affair for PDS.
And it has made me realise, by spamming PDS you can survive practically anything.
These units are far too cheap for the amount of power they have they need to have either their cost increased or their power decreased in my opinion.
What does everybody else think? PDS need a nerf or they fine as they are?

PDS dependent players (just like aircraft dependent players) can be overcome with the correct combination of ship in your attack stack.

It's "direct" counter unit is the invasion ship - but soften the pds city defense bonus with a few "city bombardments" from battleships and after firing a round of missiles at them from a cruiser, use the cruisers to reduce their city defense level.

5 PDS's in a city? 8 invasion ships, a cruiser or two with missiles (with refills available), and 2 destroyers "nerfs" them pretty well.

Yes, the PDS is strong IN a city (it's their job) but definately killable.

Remember, you're not really attacking PDS's in a city, you're attacking a city with a defense bonus.
 
yes MMV you're mostly correct but at best without the city influence defense bonus you're still up against a unit that has maximum fortify bonus and probably has a city defense promotion too.
Bring into the equation the costs of PDS compared with invasion ships, plus the fact that once you launch your invasion stack you can't add any more ships to it. Whereas the defender has the chance to build at least 2 or 3 more ships in the defending city and MORE from other cities.....

In that particular game I had about 12 bombers bombing the crap out of the city because he had no air defense, because of the sheer number of PDS i wasn't able to off even one of them let alone bombing the city defenses. When my stack arrived, not ONE of my 9 invasion ships were able to kill a single PDS and most of them had taken damage.

I can only conclude that PDS are either too cheap or too powerful or even a combination of both.
 
If you can't take out the PDS, you probably need to re-evaluate war fighting in FF. Squadrons can weaken the stack, and most military units have two moves. This combined with the fact that unlike in the epic game, the space between systems is so far apart that all cities should be close to the edge of the civ's cultural borders unless there is a nearby starbase. Just take your stack to the edge of that civ's cultural borders before declaring war. Having a unit on any warp/jump lanes will hinder the ability to reinforce a city. PDS are very easy targets outside of a city.
 
Hey, I found a few problems while playing recently.

I've been playing online with friends against AI. The three of us in a team against the AI who aren't in teams. Not sure if this is relevant or not.

All settings standard, except influence and time victory are turned off.

First problem we found was that the world map would briefly centre, a few turns into the game, showing us our position in the galaxy. I thought this was because we were all far away from each other, but the map went back to its usual uncentered self a few turns later.

Haven't seen this, maybe an issue with multplayer?

Second problem. The turn counter for research at the top was out of sync with the one in the bottom right next to our scores. For example, the counter at the top would say 3 turns and the one at the bottom would say 4.

Maybe another issue with multiplayer and turn sequencing (as the team research is affected by the actions of all players on the team)? Which one was correct?



Third and probably largest problem - Starbase culture. We were playing a game and our starbases cultural bounderies suddenly just vanished which denied us access to all our resources. We weren't in anarchy, or at war or anything like that. I'm thinking this could be some kind of espionage mission, but I couldn't find anything in the civlopedia about it. Also, we didn't receive any kind of on screen prompt. They all went back to normal next turn which is odd as well.

This is a known and probably unfixable issue with vassalization. I'm not sure if anything else affects it, though perhaps establishing a permanent alliance also would do it.

As cultural borders are recalculated for vassals, the starbases get theirs "reset". If you know about this, at least you can do some planning to help with it.

One thing: check your systems after the restoration, because you may have had population quit working or starvation due to loss of happiness and health.
 
Killing PDS requires combined arms. Instead of just bombers and invasion ships, you want to have at least some battleships for support. Destroyers and cruisers can also help to defend your invasion fleet.

First thing, and this is obvious so I'm assuming you did it, you have to knock the city defense to 0%. Enough airpower and missiles can take care of that. Use fighters to eliminate any fighter defenders.

Second thing, hammer the defending stack as your invasion fleet moves into place. It shouldn't take more than a handful of turns from border to attack, otherwise, the enemy will build more defenders and perhaps move in squadrons, as well as send more units into the areas.

Third thing, make sure you have enough units. You want at least double the number of defenders. So if they have 6 PDS, you want at least 12 attack ships. You can use battleships and cruisers to attack, but invasion ships are cheaper.

Fourth, if you've wounded the PDS down to about 2/3 strength, you are in good shape for victory. Less than that, you might need to hit them a few more turns, if you can afford the time.

Fifth, accept 50% losses if you take a star system. First thing, you want to use the least valuable invasion ships for the first waves. They're going to die, so why waste experienced units? Expect the first wave to use up one attack ship per PDS.

Invasion ships can take collateral damage promotions, which is one way to improve the value of these suicide attacks.

Sixth, when you're going for the kill, and have one good attack unit per surviving, wounded PDS, use the best attackers. Battleships often have better odds of victory than comparable era invasion ships. The idea is to win the fight, and you can't do that without risking some loss of valuable units.



In a recent game, I had an invasion force with 8 delta invasion ships and 5 battleships, plus a couple destroyers, up against a city with 4 omega PDS and a couple destroyers. The enemy had some battleships in the area, but not in the system itself. I had one carrier and one starbase in good support range, and a star system close enough that my delta bombers could reach it.

Even with good bombardment by about 10 bombers, the PDS were still fairly tough -- about 6 defense for the best. I dropped my newly built, low experience invasion ships on them, damaged them some more, then used battleships to pop the top two survivors, losing one. The invasion ships killed the rest.

It was rough -- I lost over half my force. But the system was taken.


So, no, I don't think PDS are too good. They are very good at what they do, but that's the point. It isn't supposed to be easy to take out well defended star systems.


Strategically, the AI (and for that matter, humans) can't easily afford to put massive stacks of PDS in every star system. Scout out your opponents, figure out which systems are relatively weak, assemble an attack force sufficient to take one of those, and go in fast. Don't give them time to build lots more defenders before you can take it out.

If the enemy is much higher in tech, winning can be extremely difficult. If you are matched in generation, invasion ships do fairly well against PDS at about a 2 to 3 to one ratio in cost. The expected losses are less than that, so the net cost to take a system doesn't have to exceed twice that of its defenders, and may be quite a bit less.

Having an edge in tech helps. Delta battleships are decent even against omega PDS. Once you have them, with carrier support you can blow away just about anything with light losses.
 
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