Formula 1 2013

[Thorgalaeg]

Alonso tends to mess it up once at every season beginning. Luckily he does not make much more errors for the rest of the year. About Vettel i do not understand what happened. It looked like the team was trying to make him pass Webber in the pits but didnt managed to do it, then decided to let things down at the end to avoid any danger (knowing Webber), because having in mind that Alonso was out it would not be too detrimental for the championship, however Vetel didnt agree. Bad done for Vetel, but also for Webber who almost smashed Vetel against the wall. These two guys are going to end badly.

 

[Calis]

I wonder whether Vettel will face any punishment for blatantly disregarding the team's strategy. What a selfish arrogant little turd.

What a brilliant analysis. Please try to stay objective. He made a mistake, yes. But he apologized and we'll see, whether he gets the chance to do Webber a favor in return some time.

And as a professional race driver, I think you need some good portion of of egoism.

I think in both cases (Red Bull and Mercedes), the team order did some damage to the sport. This is not meant as an argument pro Vettel, I want to point out!

 

[Formaldehyde]

It was far more than a mistake. Vettel deliberately broke team orders which are a fundamental basis of F1, despite them supposedly now being illegal.

What I personally think is far more damaging to F1 is to pretend that team owners and management are not directly responsible for overall strategy during the races. That they ostensibly have no right to determine what the drivers do on the track.

 

[Formaldehyde]

China.

Hamilton gets an easy pole. Alonso gets a fairly easy win. The Kimster takes a fairly easy second. Hamliton barely holds on for third.

Meanwhile, the world is left wondering how big of a self-centered jerk Sebastian Vettel really is. And whether or not Red Bull management will ever do anything about it.

 

[Calis]

Meanwhile, the world is left wondering how big of a self-centered jerk Sebastian Vettel really is. And whether or not Red Bull management will ever do anything about it.

What exactly do you mean by this?

 

[Formaldehyde]

What part did you consider to be unclear?

@EliGP summed up Vettel’s comments today in one handy tweet too:

So to set the record straight: Vettel didn't understand what Red Bull wanted, but apologised for something he would do again anyway

Vettel behaviour could damage Red Bull title push

In the end, it appears that the selfishness of Vettel has resulted in the breakdown of an already strained relationship between himself and Webber. What effect this will have on both his and his team’s pursuit of a fourth successive world title remains to be seen.

 

[Calis]

What part did you consider to be unclear?



Vettel behaviour could damage Red Bull title push

I thought you would come up with something new.

Why did the team now officially say, there will not be any team orders in future?

Also in your first link: Hill said the race should be on the track. And Alonso's comment, he'd obbey to team orders, is ridiculous, sorry.

Yes, Vettel made a mistake. But this is not at all as bad as some people are trying to make it. There are also enough supporters for his way to deal with this.

What could be damaging to the sport are these team orders at this stage of the season.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I thought you would come up with something new.

The American talking heads were talking about essentially nothing but this matter all weekend long.

Formula 1 has always been about team orders despite this recent nonsense that it is now ostensibly illegal. It is really the entire heritage and tradition of the sport. If the team principals cannot control their drivers the sport as a whole will drastically suffer as a direct result.

Why did the team now officially say, there will not be any team orders in future?

They were pretty much forced to do so because it is now indeed supposedly illegal to have team orders. The mere fact that "multi21" was even uttered on the radios could get them into serious difficulty with the FIA. It could have caused drastic penalties to have been imposed, and they may even still eventually occur.

What could be damaging to the sport are these team orders at this stage of the season.

I think that is utter nonsense. The teams have every right to decide what the strategy is going to be no matter which race of the season it is. This isn't a sport where the drivers own the teams and call the shots. It is just the opposite. Nico Rosberg showed that he understands how the game is played. Vettel showed just the opposite, and when pressed about it he admitted that his supposed apology was nothing of the sort.

This incident could very well have turned into another Turkey debacle with both of them taking each other out. And the stage is now set for that to likely occur this season at least once now. If Webber is anywhere near Vettel again or vice versa, watch out.

 

[Calis]

Well, Vettel DID apologize actually. But that was mainly directed towards the team, not really Webber. That's true.

He has the opinion that Webber did not deserve the victory. That is actually difficult to say. I am aware that his overtaking was not really fair, as Webber reduced the power of his car. Nobody knows who'd have won, if both have had the permission to drive fully?

Still I think that his action is overly dramatised by people who are looking for a flaw on this excellent driver and triple champion. And now there it is. What an idiot. I knew it all the time. I just can say OMG: Hamilton, Alonso, Massa, all of them had situation in which they looked very bad.

Yes, I am a fan of Vettel's driving abilities and yes, it was not right what he did. but people should get over it. He won't do it again, I am sure. He learned his lesson.

 

[Michkov]

Team orders are legal in F1, they were banned until the whole "Fernado is faster than you" story happened in Germany a couple of years back. Next season they were allowed again because FIA couldn't police the ban.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Well, Vettel DID apologize actually. But that was mainly directed towards the team, not really Webber. That's true.

Then he essentially retracted it while even claiming he would likely do exactly the same thing again under similar circumstances.

Yes, I am a fan of Vettel's driving abilities and yes, it was not right what he did. but people should get over it. He won't do it again, I am sure. He learned his lesson.

Yet Vettel apparently hasn't "learned his lesson" at all from his own statements. And he continues to jeopardize the success of Red Bull in doing so. But Dietrich Mateschitz has now stepped into the fray and suggested that they will be allowed to dice even more in the future. That Webber has deliberately backed off a number of times in the past due to team orders, but he also defied them on occasion as well:

Red Bull to reduce the use of team orders after Sebastian Vettel row

If Vettel wants to be able to dice against his own teammate at his own discretion, he should join a team like McLaren which has different rules. Of course, doing so also likely cost them a championship in 2007.

Team orders are legal in F1, they were banned until the whole "Fernado is faster than you" story happened in Germany a couple of years back. Next season they were allowed again because FIA couldn't police the ban.

I hadn't realized they officially retracted that position in 2011. It was a smart move on their part. The original ban after the 2002 Austrian and US GP was just silly. Team orders have always been an integral part of F1 with a few exceptions like McLaren, even when the teams had to hide it for nearly a decade.

Regarding the Bahrain GP, at least the racing certainly isn't boring anymore. It was yet another highly entertaining race. Lotus continues to show they have become a force while Perez continues to provide ample drama in extremely large doses. I wonder how Button now feels about team orders, or lack thereof.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Spanish GP: It was another delightfully entertaining race, especially the first lap.

Ferrari showed this season is far from over as they managed to run the entire race without nursing their tires one bit! It likely would have been Alonso first and Massa second if Massa hadn't been penalized 3 grid spots for blocking Webber during qualifying. But still, first and third shows that Ferrari is at least capable of being extremely competitive during the race.

Speaking of Webber, he had yet another horrendous start. I simply don't understand why he hasn't been able to rectify this difficulty. It is really costing him dearly.

And the Kimster finished 2nd. Now he is only 4 points behind Vettel. Alonso is 17 points behind, but he still has plenty of races to close the margin.

Paul di Resta had another nice race in the Force India finishing a quite respectable seventh.

 

[Calis]

If only Niko Hülkenberg and Adrian Sutil had been a bit more luck, they also would have finished nicely.

It was an interesting rece with a great performance by the Ferrari drivers and especially Raikönnen.

For Vettel there was not more possible in this race.

Looking forward to Monaco. There the tyres are not that important.

 

[Calis]

Actually I am going to attend at the Nürburgring this year. Although I have been a F1 fan since 1995, I never experienced a race live. Now I will. I am really excited about it.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Wow. Grats. I haven't attended an F1 race either. Take some photos and post them.

I'm not much of a fan of Monaco. While it is quite scenic and historical, the racing typically sucks.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Well, Monaco turned out to be just as boring and scenic as usual.

 

[Calis]

Except for the fact that Perez mixed it up with Destruction Derby...

And two nice overtakings by Sutil.

 

[JohannaK]

Alonso displayed a shockingly poor performance.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Except for the fact that Perez mixed it up with Destruction Derby...

And two nice overtakings by Sutil.

There is an unwritten rule that you don't try to pass at the hairpin for quite obvious reasons. Notice who tried to do so, and who didn't.

Alonso displayed a shockingly poor performance.

By not being a victim to their antics, and better staying in the championship by getting at least a few points?

 

[JohannaK]

Where there any penalties for anybody other than Alonso for not doing the chicane ?