French presidential elections - Who would you vote for ?

Who would you vote for ?

  • Gérard Schivardi (PT)

    Votes: 2 1.6%
  • Arlette Laguiller (LO)

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Olivier Besancenot (LCR)

    Votes: 6 4.9%
  • José Bové (RAG)

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Marie-Georges Buffet (PCF)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dominique Voynets (Verts)

    Votes: 2 1.6%
  • Ségolène Royal (PS)

    Votes: 29 23.6%
  • François Bayrou (UDF)

    Votes: 28 22.8%
  • Nicolas Sarkozy (UMP)

    Votes: 32 26.0%
  • Frédéric Nihous (CPNT)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Philippe de Villiers (MPF)

    Votes: 5 4.1%
  • Jean-Marie Le Pen (FN)

    Votes: 6 4.9%
  • Abstain, go fishing, whatever.

    Votes: 11 8.9%

  • Total voters
    123
Where have I told that France and the US were twins ? My point was simply that saying France and the US are two different systems don't mean that the most elementary economic rules are true in both countries.

If there would be a comparison to be made, it would be between France and its neighbours. They live in the same market, share the same currency, they experienced the same economical phenomenon at the same period of time. You can make the comparison by yourself.
 
One of the reasons I liked Bayrou's comments was his focus on small businesses. Small businesses innovate and create new jobs at a faster rate than their larger competitors. They are more nimble and creative.
I think France should do things that it does best.

IE Textile manufacturing may not be it anymore but fashion consulting, innovating and design are.
 
Do you know how many small business companies with have in France, for a country of 60 millions people?

818,000, for a total of 2,592,000 companies, that's 33% of our companies.
We have a lesser proportion of small and average companies than other countries having more innovative economies such as Germany, the UK, Canada or the US. Whomp is right, not only small business are those hiring the most, but they create also the new markets of tomorrow.

Frankly, Bayrou seduced me with his story of allowing small business to hire two tax-free jobs. Afterwards, I don't know how it could be financed, but I believe it's far to be a bad idea on paper. However, well I've already explained why this is not enough in my eyes to make me vote for him.
 
What are the losers you were talking if not unemployed people ? Well, I'm unemployed, I'm certainly not a winner, and when I hear Sarkozy, I hear him talking to me.
Maybe, just maybe, you have a bit more chance to succeed in your life than the scum (but who am I to claim such things ?). Forget your unemployment just for one second, take a breath, and try to analyse your life. Surely you're not a loser.
 
Well Marla, that list has an impressive amount of ultra-left-wing candidates! I knew Communism is alive in France, just like it is in Italy, but I would never have guessed there would be a stalinist, a communist, a old-school-trotskyist, a modern-trotskyist, an anti-capitalist and a greeny on the left of the regular social democrats. Imho, the Parti Socialiste is rather extreme.

Onbefore hand, I'd vote for Sarkozy, but this François Bayrou dude sounds fine too.
 
Anyway, what you should understand is that every candidates in this election believe that their ideas are the best for all the people of their country.
Oh, this is by no means typically French.Politicians are universally, by definition opportunists. Whenever they got a 50.1% support, they'll claim it is the will of the people. But, as we all should know, there is no 'the people'. As a liberal, I strongly believe in the idea we should respect the individual. The government should not interfer, unless needed. It annoys me that politicans think to know what is best for the collective. Such is simply impossible, as the collective has too many varieties.
 
Hey Bas ! I was sure this list would please you. :D Many of these lefty candidates are always there. And they don't even pretend they're in for being President (they say so !). IMHO, all of them are not credible :
- Arlette Laguiller, who has recently said she wasn't looking to be President (could she just disappear ?) ;
- Olivier Besancenot, whose motto is "Our lives are worth more than their profits", so... I'm not sure in which camp I am, could you elaborate ?
- Marie-George Buffet, who is saying the word "Left" a thousand times per minute (why should I care about the Left or the Right ?) ;
- José Bové, who doesn't seem to be really concerned by the fact he's running for President (but he's the less worse of them and actually has some of my sympathy (civil desobediance ;) )).
Basically they're all there to make some noise, whereas we just want to elect our new President.
 
I think what France need is to make it easier to fire people, because that would make it easier for business-owners to hire people, and would create more dyneamics in the economy.

In the period of time when people are unemployed, the state takes (or should take) good care of them.

“Flexicurity” I think the term is.
 
Laguiller seems like a tax-raising *****. I like Royal the most out of them.

But then again, I'm from the US and under 18.
 
Many left-wing ideologies are based on malthusianist principles.

Even the Dutch ultra left-wing leader, Jan Marijnissen, has stepped away lightyears from the idea the economical cake cannot grow. As far as I know, malthusianist believers have disappeared, long ago.

However, there is still the idea that if the economy grows, it might very well be possible that only the 5% richest will benefit from it, and that the 30% poorest will actually be relatively set back.

Jan Marijnissen has proposed a taxcut for small businesses (as in one-man-run-businesses). Quite something far a modern left-wing extremist.
 
I would like to hear more about their views on EU?

Nicolas Sarkozy (UMP):
Proposing to the EU a smaller treaty consisting only of the part 1 of the constitution which would be ratified in France without a referendum.

Ségolène Royal (PS): ?

François Bayrou (UDF):
Strengthening the European Union.
Does that mean he would sign the complete EU-treaty?

And where do they stand on EU agricultural funding?
 
Marx believed that wealth consisted in work, this is proven as wrong since we produce 1,000 times more for the same amount of work today than we did at the beginning of the century.

If that was true then the french unemployment problem could be solved by turning all those unemployed into traders.
You claim that 35 hours of work are not enough and strangle the economy. And in the same post you seek to absolutely dissociate labor from wealth...

Wealth is nothing else than freely granted exchange. When I buy a pencil costing 80 cents, I consider that a pencil is more valuable to me than 80 cents, otherwise I wouldn't buy it. On the other side, the guy selling me the pencil considers that 80 cents are more valuable to him than a pencil, otherwise he wouldn't sell it. As such, both me and the bookstore's guy are "richer" once we have exchanged. The more we exchange, the richer we are. Hence, the only way to fight poverty is to exchange more, not to steal the pencil from the bookstore. Many economical theories are still disputed, but this one is scientifically proven. ;)

That's not necessarily wealth, that's price. You and most economists may look at it as a measure of wealth (in fact, the equivalent of wealth), but not everyone agrees.

We are I believe one of the few country on earth where Malthus and Marx are studied in litteracy class in High School and where 90% of the population has never heard about Adam Smith.

Yes, it's really a pity. If you had read something about him you might have found this:
THE annual labour of every nation is the fund which originally supplies it with all the necessaries and conveniences of life which it annually consumes, and which consist always either in the immediate produce of that labour, or in what is purchased with that produce from other nations.
Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature And Causes of the Wealth of Nations, 1776, Book one, the very first phrase.
 
François Bayrou (UDF):
Strengthening the European Union.
Does that mean he would sign the complete EU-treaty?

What I wonder too. Signing the treaty would be a great step. However, not signing it and making a far, far, far better treaty would be a bigger step.

Anyway, what one thinks is strengthening the EU, might be considered as weakening by another.

And where do they stand on EU agricultural funding?
I always get the idea that bringing this up in French politics, means political suicide.
 
I always get the idea that bringing this up in French politics, means political suicide.

Unfortunately that's true :( The agricultural lobby is powerful in a way that its small size couldn't account for. Most of the French are just madly in love with the old "rural France" myth and usually side with the farmers.
The CAP is something that should be shot, and shot again, until it's completely dead. We've achieved agricultural independance long ago.
 
Unfortunately that's true :( The agricultural lobby is powerful in a way that its small size couldn't account for. Most of the French are just madly in love with the old "rural France" myth and usually side with the farmers.
The CAP is something that should be shot, and shot again, until it's completely dead. We've achieved agricultural independance long ago.

Has any French politician (of importance) ever publicly said the CAP is crap?
 
If that was true then the french unemployment problem could be solved by turning all those unemployed into traders.
You claim that 35 hours of work are not enough and strangle the economy. And in the same post you seek to absolutely dissociate labor from wealth...
You seem to have a limited approach of what is exchange. Every economical relationship is an exchange, production is an exchange, work is an exchange, even research and development is an exchange. Let's imagine that you're a farmer selling 10 tons of wheat and thanks to a better productivity, you grow 15 tons of wheat the year after, then you'll sell more wheat, hence you'll be able to exchange more.

If you'd like to make your own car by yourself, in your garage, you would need hours and hours of painful work. But in a modern manufacturing plant, the worker just need to push a button and check if there's nothing wrong with machines. In one day, he has produced 10 cars. Of course, this is a charicature, but the point is simply to make you see the idea. :)

That's not necessarily wealth, that's price. You and most economists may look at it as a measure of wealth (in fact, the equivalent of wealth), but not everyone agrees.
Forget the price, there's no price, money doesn't exist. They could just trade objects. The only point is that there's no absolute value, each individual sees a different "utility" or satisfaction he can get thanks to a specific object and the value each individual attributes to that object is dependent on this. And hence, different to the one his neighbour will attribute to the same object. Some people couldn't live without a computer, other people couldn't think living with a computer. They don't give the same value to the same object.

We're in an island lost in the Pacific Ocean, money doesn't exist, I'm a wheat farmer and you're a cattle farmer. I'm bored to eat bread all the day, and you're bored to eat meat all the day. As a result, we don't give the same value to wheat and cattle. That's why we both agree to exchange wheat and meat, and we're both happier once the exchange is done. Indeed, both of us have exchanged something we considered having less value for something we considered having more value. We are both more satisfied afterwards. We are both "richer".

Money is just a good which is easy to trade with something else. It doesn't represent any kind of absolute value. If I would produce twice more banknotes, the value of the money will be twice lower, and as a result, all the "prices" will double.

Yes, it's really a pity. If you had read something about him you might have found this:
I've just mentionned Adam Smith because he's a very well-known economics pioneer, not because his words are gold. The modern theory of value has been discovered by the neoclassical school of economics in the late 19th century, one century after Adam Smith.

What I was denouncing was simply that despite there's no economics class in High School, we still teach us Marxist and Malthusianist theories of economics in litterature and philosophy class, without mentioning any other theories of economics.
 
Has any French politician (of importance) ever publicly said the CAP is crap?
This may surprize you, but most candidates, including the 3 main ones, consider the CAP as an outdated, productivist, agricultural policy. None will blindly defend it in its current shape as Chirac did during 12 years.

However, very few believe all agricultural subsidies, no matter which, should stop. Most considers that agricultural subsidies remain useful if they are meant to improve the food quality. Frankly, is this that silly ?
 
This may surprize you, but most candidates, including the 3 main ones, consider the CAP as an outdated, productivist, agricultural policy. None will blindly defend it in its current shape as Chirac did during 12 years.

However, very few believe all agricultural subsidies, no matter which, should stop. Most considers that agricultural subsidies remain useful if they are meant to improve the food quality. Frankly, is this that silly ?

Not silly at all.

But "quality" is such a flexibel term.

Large porkfarms/factories that produces fairly cheap, fairly tasteless, fairly diseasefree and unpolluted porkmeat. They make quality food. In a way. The farmes say they do.
 
Not silly at all.

But "quality" is such a flexibel term.

Large porkfarms/factories that produces fairly cheap, fairly tasteless, fairly diseasefree and unpolluted porkmeat. They make quality food. In a way. The farmes say they do.
Already today, there are tons of criteria to be respected in order to reach certain labels of food quality. And inspections are very tough on this. It's not as hard as you imagine.
 
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