G-Major 60
- Thread starter Ozbenno
- Start date
^ I missed that. It's the better choice... I'm not 100% sure, but I think that Musu Musu's Early Special could take The Unit Which Cannot Be Spelled in a fight.
Okay, on the board, basically by copying some of the posters and using Suleiman the Magnificant and Boreal. I never realized how much tech and production you can get with specialists, pyramids, philsophical on a map with many food resources (such as deer). I'm dead last on this one, but that is currently good enough for third 
Well I finally got a good run. Suleiman on boreal, as usual. Not only janissaries, but the 2 
from the hammam is a huge early boost to growth. Coupled with rep and gems/forge it meant I never had to build globe to stay happy.
No stone or marble, but 2 gems, 6 deer and later copper showed up so I could build maces. Isolated corner start, which is probably essential.
Slowbuilt the GW at the start, ended up having to popush it to avoid some improvements being pillaged since my defenses had been dented - I think I was down to a lone warrior in the capital
Also built (chopped) pyramids, oracle (CS-sling), great library (this one was very helpful). NW built NE, HE, Oxford (late and not needed).
Research wise I went hunting-archery-mining-masonry-BW-pottery-writing-math-myst-poly-ph-col-CS(free)-MC-aesth-lit-const-mach-engr-paper-edu(2xbulb)-gp-theo-chem-ms-guilds.
Unfortunately 1st couple gpersons were spies, I just settled them. Then got 3 GS for academy and edu bulbing. Settled all the rest I got.
I had 3 main armies. The first consisted of cats/maces and a couple trebs and was moving around 600AD - I think I took my first city in the early 700's. The second was janissaries and trebs and started moving maybe around 900AD I think. I made it to grens and the earliest ones helped take like 2 cities, but weren't needed. The third army of grens and trebs went on a wild goose chase for the "final" AI and never reached the front.
Also I was helped by the ineptness of the AI. The CS-sling was very late - like 400BC or something. IIRC the only wonder the AI built was SH. Only Liz got to longbows, and she only managed to build about 4 of them. Nobody built HA's (very weird). Roos had only 2 cities, Izzy had only 1 and lost it to Lincoln at some point (maybe barbs first). Lincoln had the most cities, but his capital had 10 or so ice tiles. Not sure if it was more the barbs or the map, but it wasn't really difficult once the conquesting began - it probably would have been possible with just trebs and maces.
I finished in 14xx.
from the hammam is a huge early boost to growth. Coupled with rep and gems/forge it meant I never had to build globe to stay happy.No stone or marble, but 2 gems, 6 deer and later copper showed up so I could build maces. Isolated corner start, which is probably essential.
Slowbuilt the GW at the start, ended up having to popush it to avoid some improvements being pillaged since my defenses had been dented - I think I was down to a lone warrior in the capital
Also built (chopped) pyramids, oracle (CS-sling), great library (this one was very helpful). NW built NE, HE, Oxford (late and not needed).Research wise I went hunting-archery-mining-masonry-BW-pottery-writing-math-myst-poly-ph-col-CS(free)-MC-aesth-lit-const-mach-engr-paper-edu(2xbulb)-gp-theo-chem-ms-guilds.
Unfortunately 1st couple gpersons were spies, I just settled them. Then got 3 GS for academy and edu bulbing. Settled all the rest I got.
I had 3 main armies. The first consisted of cats/maces and a couple trebs and was moving around 600AD - I think I took my first city in the early 700's. The second was janissaries and trebs and started moving maybe around 900AD I think. I made it to grens and the earliest ones helped take like 2 cities, but weren't needed. The third army of grens and trebs went on a wild goose chase for the "final" AI and never reached the front.
Also I was helped by the ineptness of the AI. The CS-sling was very late - like 400BC or something. IIRC the only wonder the AI built was SH. Only Liz got to longbows, and she only managed to build about 4 of them. Nobody built HA's (very weird). Roos had only 2 cities, Izzy had only 1 and lost it to Lincoln at some point (maybe barbs first). Lincoln had the most cities, but his capital had 10 or so ice tiles. Not sure if it was more the barbs or the map, but it wasn't really difficult once the conquesting began - it probably would have been possible with just trebs and maces.
I finished in 14xx.
Okay, got a much better game this time. I think I've figured out the secret to this gauntlet: find a game where the AI does poorly. Early on I briefly got warnings about how my pop was exceeding the dom limit. This meant to me that the barbs were working over the other AIs and indeed this was the case.
In my game I followed my usual strategy: worker, warrior and then great wall. Next the pyramids (which are needed to go to representation, which is needed to get good tech from specialists which is the only way to tech in a boreal map), then a library and then the oracle to get civil service. I had trouble timing it but it worked out okay. Instead of going paper->edu for the tech I got macemen and started attacking with cats and macemen, later upgrading to janissaries. I've found you can get the great wall fast enough to avoid having to build many military troops.
In my game the AI was pretty far behind and I mostly just needed to find them. Only two civs did well, and one was right next to me so I was able to kill it before it really expanded. Asoka was far away and it took me a while but my main field army was finally able to kill him.
So if you get lucky I don't think you need big guns for this one. I finished sub 1400 for 1st place.
-- Manic
In my game I followed my usual strategy: worker, warrior and then great wall. Next the pyramids (which are needed to go to representation, which is needed to get good tech from specialists which is the only way to tech in a boreal map), then a library and then the oracle to get civil service. I had trouble timing it but it worked out okay. Instead of going paper->edu for the tech I got macemen and started attacking with cats and macemen, later upgrading to janissaries. I've found you can get the great wall fast enough to avoid having to build many military troops.
In my game the AI was pretty far behind and I mostly just needed to find them. Only two civs did well, and one was right next to me so I was able to kill it before it really expanded. Asoka was far away and it took me a while but my main field army was finally able to kill him.
So if you get lucky I don't think you need big guns for this one. I finished sub 1400 for 1st place.
-- Manic
I finally had a game going where I thought I was going well, was less than 10 turns from Gunpowder and then Asoka, Gandhi and Frederick all turned up at the same time with 10+ stacks of catapults/swords/axes/horse archers
. I had 3 CG3 archers, 3 catatpults and 4 CG2 archers and a medic warrior, I at least lasted past the first turn of 30+ attacks, with just my warrior left 
They all seemed to be handling the conditions OK
I'm convinced on a good map that Augustus can do this with just Praetorians faster than it can be done with Sule. If you settle on stone and research masonry first you can build barracks -> (switch to) great wall -> worker. The stone also allows you to get the pyramids quickly (may as well for the happy, there's nothing to build until you have iron). Then researching the worker techs & bronze/iron and lots of chopping and you're ready to roll over the map.
The problem is getting a map where you have stone that also has decent other resources (ideally gems and plains deer). Then the difficulty is that iron only shows in an early reachable spot maybe one in four games. But if it all works out in a game where the AI is backward, it's surely faster than waiting for maces.
Almost did it in a test game, but had basically zero commerce (no gems or river) on my start so that running an army around sent me broke and my units were disbanding. The same start with gems and I think it would have worked.
The problem is getting a map where you have stone that also has decent other resources (ideally gems and plains deer). Then the difficulty is that iron only shows in an early reachable spot maybe one in four games. But if it all works out in a game where the AI is backward, it's surely faster than waiting for maces.
Almost did it in a test game, but had basically zero commerce (no gems or river) on my start so that running an army around sent me broke and my units were disbanding. The same start with gems and I think it would have worked.
WilliamOfOrange
King
Ugh! This is ridiculous. I don't know how anybody can beat this. I want to actually watch someone do this. I am going crazy.
I am getting very frustrated that all the maps end up not having iron (or iron just a little too far away) then when I finally do get a good start it happens to be one of the maps where multiple AIs get a double digit number of cities and wiping them out would take forever.
OctavianFlu
Emperor
Two things: 1. This is one bad ass G-Major! 2. Is it me or random events allow you to make peace while "Always War" is enabled? This to me is a bug, because it violates the "Always War" function of the game.
There is an event (wounded soldier event) that can offer you peace with one of the AI but if you take that option, you automatically re-declare on them so you can't escape the Always War part of the game.
OctavianFlu
Emperor
Could be the case. I wish I saved the game :/ (bad me) because the event came up very frequently, and didn't seem so random. Anyway, if I run into it again I'd be sure to pay more attention. This is one side-kick to head type of game
It does knock them out of your territory when you get it, so it's still useful even if it doesn't stop war.
Managed to get 4 AIs dead in my latest try before the longbows showed up, and with 17 cities to go it just seemed too hard. I want one of these magical maps where everyone is backward with only a couple of cities.
Managed to get 4 AIs dead in my latest try before the longbows showed up, and with 17 cities to go it just seemed too hard. I want one of these magical maps where everyone is backward with only a couple of cities.
I tried several other games: one archipelago which utterly failed; some boreal maps that I quit around 14xx when it became obvious that I'm too slow; tons of boreal maps quit in disgust with no single strategic resource...
And finally the one, extremely rare game as Augustus with stone and gems and iron...AND horses!
Standard opening: worker-warrior-archer(s)-GW-SH-worker-mids-CoLsling-library-barracks-army. Due to the lack of t4 units I went for Theo&Vassalage and a medium Praet army (that killed 2 civs) before researching Heroic Epic & CS. The final and important steps were knights and engineering. Three settled great priests and one merchant eliminated all gold problems. Rome was size 12, and the culture slider was needed a lot in the end due to WW.
The annoying thing was that 3 AIs did extremely well; they all had copper+iron+horses, while Fred and Roosevelt in addition got those dreamstarts in a corner shielded by long mountain ridges. They both had longbows when I reached them. Without my knights, victory would have come many centuries later. And even with them, I did not win before 1400 AD. Built approx. 80 units (hardly cats) and killed some 400.
I'm getting the impression that if the map generator is gracious to you, it is even more gracious to the AI
In most other boreal games, longbows didn't appear until late 16th or 17th century.
And finally the one, extremely rare game as Augustus with stone and gems and iron...AND horses!
Standard opening: worker-warrior-archer(s)-GW-SH-worker-mids-CoLsling-library-barracks-army. Due to the lack of t4 units I went for Theo&Vassalage and a medium Praet army (that killed 2 civs) before researching Heroic Epic & CS. The final and important steps were knights and engineering. Three settled great priests and one merchant eliminated all gold problems. Rome was size 12, and the culture slider was needed a lot in the end due to WW.
The annoying thing was that 3 AIs did extremely well; they all had copper+iron+horses, while Fred and Roosevelt in addition got those dreamstarts in a corner shielded by long mountain ridges. They both had longbows when I reached them. Without my knights, victory would have come many centuries later. And even with them, I did not win before 1400 AD. Built approx. 80 units (hardly cats) and killed some 400.
I'm getting the impression that if the map generator is gracious to you, it is even more gracious to the AI
In most other boreal games, longbows didn't appear until late 16th or 17th century.That's a most impressive result, and I think it will win the gauntlet - unless someone manages to "pull off a Cyrus"
That's a most impressive result, and I think it will win the gauntlet - unless someone manages to "pull off a Cyrus"
I was convinced Cyrus could do this & I worked tirelessly to prove it. I managed to knock out one civ w/ my immortals in several games but then would have to keep my immortals holed up in the capitol to fight off enemy stacks. When I did get a stack of immortals out in some games to seek my enemies, I was constantly facing the barbarian hordes / enemy stacks so that what finally arrived at my enemy's doorstep was not really what you would call a stack. I never tried Boreal though & meant to make an attempt on that map, but never got around to it after giving up on other settings. It seems to me though that the early advantage of the immortal was offset by the barb attacks on AI units which allowed survivors to be highly promoted.
I don't think Immortals will work well on this gauntlet - if you can do it you'll get the best time, but it seems unlikely.
I do agree with an earlier posted that the standard Roman Legion beatdown might work well, although Janissaries are much more powerful (8.0 versus 9*1.25=11.25). But in a lucky start where the AI is not doing well it might be possible and maybe you can tech to knights as a clean-up crew.
Boreal is a good map for this - I tried several inland sea games (to limit stacks and meeting AIs) but they were just too strong to beat quickly.
-- Manic
I do agree with an earlier posted that the standard Roman Legion beatdown might work well, although Janissaries are much more powerful (8.0 versus 9*1.25=11.25). But in a lucky start where the AI is not doing well it might be possible and maybe you can tech to knights as a clean-up crew.
Boreal is a good map for this - I tried several inland sea games (to limit stacks and meeting AIs) but they were just too strong to beat quickly.
-- Manic
Well for practical purposes if your troops are CRIII promoted, it's 8 * 1.75 vs 9 * 2 when attacking a city. The advantage is that you can have an army out in the BCs vs 800 or so AD for Janissaries.
The best I was able to do was take 4 civs out before longbows showed up though. I tried a few different tech paths and it seemed the most effective was to get IW ASAP then stop bothering trying to tech. By going this route you're obviously gambling on the map where an early victory is possible though.
I gave up because I got sick of playing out starts and then no iron, or you'd meet an AI that already had a vassal very early on, or long bows showing up super early. I'm sure it's doable by someone with more patience though.
The best I was able to do was take 4 civs out before longbows showed up though. I tried a few different tech paths and it seemed the most effective was to get IW ASAP then stop bothering trying to tech. By going this route you're obviously gambling on the map where an early victory is possible though.
I gave up because I got sick of playing out starts and then no iron, or you'd meet an AI that already had a vassal very early on, or long bows showing up super early. I'm sure it's doable by someone with more patience though.
In regards to the city raider III praets, I think the game has a bit of a weird algorithm. Some bonuses like +10% add to your power. The others subtract from theirs. So versus an archer (strength 3) a praet does better with the +10% promotion than with city raider (+20% city attack). City makes jans (or musketmen) extra good since their base attack is so high.
But yes, the game you describe does seem doable and should give you a 1st place as it stands.
-- Manic
But yes, the game you describe does seem doable and should give you a 1st place as it stands.
-- Manic
Results:
G-Major 60 - Conquest, Emperor, Standard, Epic with (OCC, Raging Barbs, Always War)
1st manic 1320 AD
2nd karmina 1400 AD
3rd FiveAces 1495 AD
Congratulations!
G-Major 60 - Conquest, Emperor, Standard, Epic with (OCC, Raging Barbs, Always War)
1st manic 1320 AD
2nd karmina 1400 AD
3rd FiveAces 1495 AD
Congratulations!
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