G-Minor XCIV

[Peets]

While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

(*) Please read the >> HOF rules << BEFORE playing!​

Settings:

• Expansion: Brave New World
• Victory Condition: Science (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Deity
• Map Size: Standard
• Map Type: Continents
• Speed: Standard
• Leader: Greece (Alexander)
• Opponents: Any
• Version: SV8
• Date: 1st to 16th February 2015

The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

 

[vadalaz]

I still need Deity, Continents and Greece for VVV, so this is perfect for me.

 

[Cromagnus]

Man, it's been a long time since I've done a Deity science victory. I'm super rusty but I think I'll have to try this one.

 

[Bleidraner]

I only have one science Deity in HOF so will do this, but will have to finish the GOTM first, its looking like a looooong game but I am commmitted. Win or lose.

 

[zenmaster]

I only have one science Deity in HOF so will do this, but will have to finish the GOTM first, its looking like a looooong game but I am commmitted. Win or lose.

And you medaled in that one science Deity game I noted. Awesome job! Good luck in your GOTM

 

[Bleidraner]

And you medaled in that one science Deity game I noted. Awesome job! Good luck in your GOTM

Well I am going to consider the GOTM as lost. I am almost at 200 and only 2 caps, so it looks like XComs and nukes and I don't have the heart to play another 150 really slow turns, moving all those units takes forever. Gonna kick off this one.

 

[vadalaz]

The GOTM started off well enough for me (2 caps down by t90, camels at t105ish) but I got impatient and eventually bored of the really long tedious turns. All the worker-baiting, pillage-repair healing, and dealing with AI unit spam just makes me lose all my concentration and will to continue playing. I don't think that Immortal and Deity are nearly as hard as they're frustrating.

 

[dcruze75]

By Game of the Month, I guess you mean the G-Major?

Funny how that one is a Warlord game, and the minor is Deity. I'll try this one, though I've never won on Deity yet...

 

[Bleidraner]

By Game of the Month, I guess you mean the G-Major?

Funny how that one is a Warlord game, and the minor is Deity. I'll try this one, though I've never won on Deity yet...

No he means the Game of the Month (GOTM). There is another subforum for that, the staff posts a start and everybody plays the same game. It can be fun. Check it out. It is an immortal domination game.

Good luck with the science deity and don't choose warmongers as opponents if it is your first deity

 

[RaidandTrade]

...and don't choose warmongers as opponents if it is your first deity

I put a mix in mine hoping the warmongers would curb the culture runaways. Shaka has eliminated Morocco and the Ottomans and is spamming cities worse than Hiawatha on acid.

I've paid him off to go knock on Venice's door but he's my immediate neighbour. We'll see how my mountain range holds him out when he's bored with Venice now that he's just hit Impis.

On the other continent, Monty and the Celts have it bad for Ghandi...

Hoping to DOW Venice and have a "war with a common foe" bonus and then point him at Boudicca to let them have at it. Shaka is tech leader at the moment so we're swapping caravans.

If that doesn't work, might be a re-roll. Only got three cities up but snagged Petra and Hanging Gardens and two of my cities have observatories so hope to play it out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bleidraner]

I put a mix in mine hoping the warmongers would curb the culture runaways. Shaka has eliminated Morocco and the Ottomans and is spamming cities worse than Hiawatha on acid.

I've paid him off to go knock on Venice's door but he's my immediate neighbour. We'll see how my mountain range holds him out when he's bored with Venice now that he's just hit Impis.

On the other continent, Monty and the Celts have it bad for Ghandi...

Hoping to DOW Venice and have a "war with a common foe" bonus and then point him at Boudicca to let them have at it. Shaka is tech leader at the moment so we're swapping caravans.

If that doesn't work, might be a re-roll. Only got three cities up but snagged Petra and Hanging Gardens and two of my cities have observatories so hope to play it out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah but this is not your first deity game but I have to say if I rolled a start next to Shaka its an immediate reroll for me for a Science game at Deity. Even if you win, I cannot imagine the stress of spending the whole game wondering when will I die. Good luck! HG and Petra, wow, I can understand why you want to continue playing.

 

[chuckh89]

I know it is deity, and it is suppose to be competitive...And I can handle all the challenges that come with this Gauntlet. Except one...

Religion

I have stated in the past, that I am the "ReRoll King", but this is getting ridiculous.

Most acceptable "Continent" maps consist of 3-4 enemy Civs, and at this level you need to get a Scout out early if you want Ruins. Most of the Ruins are off the board early (before turn 20), and obviously your can't pop a faith ruin until after this threshold.

The AI gets multiple cities out early, so IMHO your not going to beat him with faith buildings, and in a deity game,.."Do you really want one of your first builds to be a Shrine?" In addition, you have no chance of getting the GL, so a early Shrine/Temple stack is out of the question.

So, you have 3 options
1) Take down the Stonehenge builder early (Total luck that he is on your continent, and your able to take him out)
2) Pop a ruin after turn 20 (Maybe only 1-2 left at this point) then pray it is faith, possibly even guard ruins until after T20.
3) Faith Natural Wonder in Capital

Is this a Gauntlet a challenge that would give me HUGE satisfaction...Yes,....Is it worth the multiple ReRolls,...Probably not.

Is it fun...NO!

 

[Cromagnus]

I know it is deity, and it is suppose to be competitive...And I can handle all the challenges that come with this Gauntlet. Except one...

Religion

I have stated in the past, that I am the "ReRoll King", but this is getting ridiculous.

Most acceptable "Continent" maps consist of 3-4 enemy Civs, and at this level you need to get a Scout out early if you want Ruins. Most of the Ruins are off the board early (before turn 20), and obvious your can't pop a faith ruin until after this threshold.

The AI gets multiple cities out early, so IMHO your not going to beat him with faith buildings, and in a deity game,.."Do you really want one of your first builds to be a Shrine?" In addition, you have no chance of getting the GL, so a early Shrine/Temple stack is out of the question.

So, you have 3 options
1) Take down the Stonehenge builder early (Total luck that he is on your continent, and your able to take him out)
2) Pop a ruin after turn 20 (Maybe only 1-2 left at this point) then pray it is faith, possibly even guard ruins until after T20.
3) Faith Natural Wonder in Capital

Is this a Gauntlet a challenge that would give me HUGE satisfaction...Yes,....Is it worth the multiple ReRolls,...Probably not.

Is it fun...NO!

Yep. If I find a ruin after t15 I leave my scout next to it and only snag it if someone else comes by. This earns me a pantheon more often on Deity than building a shrine, sadly.

 

[Mesix]

I know it is deity, and it is suppose to be competitive...And I can handle all the challenges that come with this Gauntlet. Except one...

Religion

I have stated in the past, that I am the "ReRoll King", but this is getting ridiculous.

Most acceptable "Continent" maps consist of 3-4 enemy Civs, and at this level you need to get a Scout out early if you want Ruins. Most of the Ruins are off the board early (before turn 20), and obviously your can't pop a faith ruin until after this threshold.

The AI gets multiple cities out early, so IMHO your not going to beat him with faith buildings, and in a deity game,.."Do you really want one of your first builds to be a Shrine?" In addition, you have no chance of getting the GL, so a early Shrine/Temple stack is out of the question.

So, you have 3 options
1) Take down the Stonehenge builder early (Total luck that he is on your continent, and your able to take him out)
2) Pop a ruin after turn 20 (Maybe only 1-2 left at this point) then pray it is faith, possibly even guard ruins until after T20.
3) Faith Natural Wonder in Capital

Is this a Gauntlet a challenge that would give me HUGE satisfaction...Yes,....Is it worth the multiple ReRolls,...Probably not.

Is it fun...NO!

You forgot about CS. If you meet two CS early on you will also get a pantheon.

If religion is an important part of your strategy, it may be worth restarting a few times.

 

[chuckh89]

Yep. If I find a ruin after t15 I leave my scout next to it and only snag it if someone else comes by. This earns me a pantheon more often on Deity than building a shrine, sadly.

The other thing that stinks is that you really only have a choice of pantheons, because if you don't...Your probably not going to get a religion.

I had a excellent capital (Lake Victoria w/ excellent production resources), then popped a ruin turn 24. With a awesome capital I wasn't going to take any chances, so I selected "One with Nature" (+4 Natural Wonders), and I still didn't get a religion!

For a Science victory your probably temped to take a Growth pantheon,...Good Luck!

If I am not selecting a faith pantheon (many times because all the good ones are gone), then the strategy is always conquering neighbors to lower the bidding for religion, or using a conquered foreign religion to grow faith to acquire my religion.

You forgot about CS. If you meet two CS early on you will also get a pantheon.

If religion is an important part of your strategy, it may be worth restarting a few times.

Yeah, I left that option out because after 50 ReRolls it never happened, and unless it is the first 2 CSs that you meet it really isn't a possibility because Pantheons fly off the board so quickly raising the amount of faith needed for your pantheon threshold.

Yes, I am a faith driven player...But, Do you guys actually play a long game (Science) on Deity without Religion?

 

[Cromagnus]

I may be the only one, but I don't like Lake Victoria as a NW. It's worth less than one extra caravan, and early in the game, your growth will outpace happiness, gold and production.

Compare that to getting 800 extra gold by Education with Cerro de Potosi, or 200 extra culture with Kilimanjaro, or 600 extra faith with one of the faith wonders, I dunno. Especially on Deity where happiness is usually the limiting factor. /shrug

Consider that 6 food in a tile is only 1 more than you'd get with a wheat farm if you had a granary, and after civil service is not even better than that...

 

[chuckh89]

I may be the only one, but I don't like Lake Victoria as a NW.

Disagree (Wow, don't think that has ever happened with your opinion Cro )

I love Lake Victoria, BUT,...You have to have valuable production sources. The benefit is in your capital early game, and it is not the 6 growth long term that outshines other wonders, it is the early game snowball effect that dominates. If your outgrowing your happiness then your using it wrong!

Forced production early in a normal capital will cause your cities to starve and lose population. But, if you can get enough Growth under your belt, then you can starve you city for major production early game without dropping population. I know it is unbelievable, BUT I actually got the GL on this Deity Gauntlet with a Lake Victoria capital using the early growth/production starve strategy. It is especially awesome for getting settlers out early game (since your not growing during settler production anyway).

Consider that 6 food in a tile is only 1 more than you'd get with a wheat farm if you had a granary, and after civil service is not even better than that...

A early game wheat farm requires time to build/steal a worker, and then turns to create a farm (Also barbarian threat - worker steal or pillage possibility), and then more turns for the granary. Lake Victoria in a capital provides immediate +6 growth! And when you do get your worker, he is making mines/chopping forests instead of farms...Big early advantage that snowballs to late game!

Compare that to getting 800 extra gold by Education with Cerro de Potosi, or 200 extra culture with Kilimanjaro, or 600 extra faith with one of the faith wonders

These numbers are probably inflated (With the exception of Uluru and Kilimanjaro) because you need the growth to offset the benefits of the natural wonder. Unless you have major growth tile your not going to reap the benefits from turn one of the game. How many times have players been excited when finding Mt. Sinia or Kailash, only to realize that your going to have to put that tile "on hold" after your pantheon until you get a major growth tile, or a second city (with Granary-more turns) sending a caravan.

 

[Cromagnus]

Disagree (Wow, don't think that has ever happened with your opinion Cro )

I love Lake Victoria, BUT,...You have to have valuable production sources. The benefit is in your capital early game, and it is not the 6 growth long term that outshines other wonders, it is the early game snowball effect that dominates. If your outgrowing your happiness then your using it wrong!

Forced production early in a normal capital will cause your cities to starve and lose population. But, if you can get enough Growth under your belt, then you can starve you city for major production early game without dropping population. I know it is unbelievable, BUT I actually got the GL on this Deity Gauntlet with a Lake Victoria capital using the early growth/production starve strategy. It is especially awesome for getting settlers out early game (since your not growing during settler production anyway).



A early game wheat farm requires time to build/steal a worker, and then turns to create a farm (Also barbarian threat - worker steal or pillage possibility). Lake Victoria in a capital provides immediate +6 growth! And when you do get your worker, he is making mines/chopping forests instead of farms...Big early advantage that snowballs to late game!



These numbers are probably inflated (With the exception of Uluru and Kilimanjaro) because you need the growth to offset the benefits of the natural wonder. Unless you have major growth tile your not going to reap the benefits from turn one of the game. How many times have players been excited when finding Mt. Sinia or Kailash, only to realize that your going to have to put that tile "on hold" after your pantheon until you get a major growth tile, or a second city (with Granary-more turns) sending a caravan.

On Deity, my early game happiness is consumed by expos. +6 food in the capital before you have all your luxuries improved and trade deals going is going to limit growth. But that's just how I play it.

 

[Bleidraner]

Disagree (Wow, don't think that has ever happened with your opinion Cro )

I love Lake Victoria, BUT,...You have to have valuable production sources. The benefit is in your capital early game, and it is not the 6 growth long term that outshines other wonders, it is the early game snowball effect that dominates. If your outgrowing your happiness then your using it wrong!

Forced production early in a normal capital will cause your cities to starve and lose population. But, if you can get enough Growth under your belt, then you can starve you city for major production early game without dropping population. I know it is unbelievable, BUT I actually got the GL on this Deity Gauntlet with a Lake Victoria capital using the early growth/production starve strategy. It is especially awesome for getting settlers out early game (since your not growing during settler production anyway).



A early game wheat farm requires time to build/steal a worker, and then turns to create a farm (Also barbarian threat - worker steal or pillage possibility). Lake Victoria in a capital provides immediate +6 growth! And when you do get your worker, he is making mines/chopping forests instead of farms...Big early advantage that snowballs to late game!



These numbers are probably inflated (With the exception of Uluru and Kilimanjaro) because you need the growth to offset the benefits of the natural wonder. Unless you have major growth tile your not going to reap the benefits from turn one of the game. How many times have players been excited when finding Mt. Sinia or Kailash, only to realize that your going to have to put that tile "on hold" after your pantheon until you get a major growth tile, or a second city (with Granary-more turns) sending a caravan.

Cro, i have to say that I am with Chuck here. Well manage, Lake Victoria creates great production without impacting your growth, and what's more, it gives you a lot of fun opportunities micromanaging it. Also the opportunity cost regarding the workers that he mentions, is a great argument. All this vs. Cerro, I prefer the faith wonders, especially on Deity, where it is extremely difficult to get a religion.

 

[Cromagnus]

Cro, i have to say that I am with Chuck here. Well manage, Lake Victoria creates great production without impacting your growth, and what's more, it gives you a lot of fun opportunities micromanaging it. Also the opportunity cost regarding the workers that he mentions, is a great argument. All this vs. Cerro, I prefer the faith wonders, especially on Deity, where it is extremely difficult to get a religion.

When I look at the early game on Deity, (IE t1-t100) for me it's all about removing bottlenecks.

I don't have any trouble maxing out population without Lake Victoria. (IE barely staying in positive happiness)

Since I would need more happiness to support more growth, Lake Victoria doesn't really help me. Fountain of Youth, on the other hand, is HUGE on Deity. I'm always happiness bound during science victory attempts, never growth-bound.

Now, if Lake Victoria came with an extra lux, well, sure, but in my experience, NW are usually in resource-starved spots.