G-Minor XCIV

[dcruze75]

I seem to have picked the peaceful ones, I was never attacked - but I still ended up losing to Arabia.

I read a guide which put emphasis on OCC, and getting Porcelain Tower and Hubble. I was one turn away from getting Porcelain Tower, but lost it to Arabia. Later I was way behind to even get Hubble.

Production was a bit of an issue as well, I got a coastal city next to a mountain that I settled on a hill - no river.

Is it better to have multiple cities?

 

[RaidandTrade]

After mopping up my continent early (Morocco and the Ottomans) and spamming worse than Hiawatha ever did, he went to eternal war with Venice (my bribe). Eventually, we meet the neighbours and the Celts are at it with Monty and they're both at it with India. Celts are the cultural powerhouse which suits me fine because Shaka's flying along with tourism but will never take the Celts culturally.

Monty has a go at me but is easily repelled.

Shaka's happy enough to take money to fight multi-front wars with everyone and chew them up. Army, navy, you name it, he's got it in spades.

Fast forward a few hundred years and Venice, India and Monty are dust. Only three city states remain and Shaka - my DOF bestie - knocks to pose a cheeky question: "Wanna go fight Boudicca?"

"Erm, no. Actually."

There was nobody else I could point him to so it was pull out the stops to build the last part. Even if I'd have said, "Gimme 10 turns" that wouldn't be enough.

He dithers for a bit. Don't know why - probably to make me suffer.

Then I see the crossed swords of doom appear and I know the end is imminent. At this point, I'm now a mere 3 turns from finishing my final part and the Celts are at 2 cities.

"Hi Shaka, do you want all my material possessions and three cities to not fight?"

"Talk to the hand - not interested in peace."

@£$%!!!!!!!

Next turn. Turn ends and the map changes - Celts are down to one city. I need 2 turns.

Next turn. Turn ends and the Celts recover their city. Come on baby, you can do it!

Next Turn. Breath held. Guess not...

CULTURE LOSS BY ONE @£$%ING TURN!!! :wall bash:

Shaka is SO not invited to my next attempt...

 

[Bleidraner]

When I look at the early game on Deity, (IE t1-t100) for me it's all about removing bottlenecks.

I don't have any trouble maxing out population without Lake Victoria. (IE barely staying in positive happiness)

Since I would need more happiness to support more growth, Lake Victoria doesn't really help me. Fountain of Youth, on the other hand, is HUGE on Deity. I'm always happiness bound during science victory attempts, never growth-bound.

Now, if Lake Victoria came with an extra lux, well, sure, but in my experience, NW are usually in resource-starved spots.

Well I guess you have a point, for Deity. I still prefer the extra food and production, you are losing a food and production tile with Cerro, but I understand your arguments.

 

[Bleidraner]

I seem to have picked the peaceful ones, I was never attacked - but I still ended up losing to Arabia.

I read a guide which put emphasis on OCC, and getting Porcelain Tower and Hubble. I was one turn away from getting Porcelain Tower, but lost it to Arabia. Later I was way behind to even get Hubble.

Production was a bit of an issue as well, I got a coastal city next to a mountain that I settled on a hill - no river.

Is it better to have multiple cities?

Yes very much so. For any condition and level. And at Deity even more so as you need to take the tech lead as soon as you can, otherwise no late game wonders, no first to ideology. Multiple cities will also spawn multiple GSs and allow you to compete for things like World fair. Try 4 cities tradition, there are plenty of guides out there.

 

[Bleidraner]

After mopping up my continent early (Morocco and the Ottomans) and spamming worse than Hiawatha ever did, he went to eternal war with Venice (my bribe). Eventually, we meet the neighbours and the Celts are at it with Monty and they're both at it with India. Celts are the cultural powerhouse which suits me fine because Shaka's flying along with tourism but will never take the Celts culturally.

Monty has a go at me but is easily repelled.

Shaka's happy enough to take money to fight multi-front wars with everyone and chew them up. Army, navy, you name it, he's got it in spades.

Fast forward a few hundred years and Venice, India and Monty are dust. Only three city states remain and Shaka - my DOF bestie - knocks to pose a cheeky question: "Wanna go fight Boudicca?"

"Erm, no. Actually."

There was nobody else I could point him to so it was pull out the stops to build the last part. Even if I'd have said, "Gimme 10 turns" that wouldn't be enough.

He dithers for a bit. Don't know why - probably to make me suffer.

Then I see the crossed swords of doom appear and I know the end is imminent. At this point, I'm now a mere 3 turns from finishing my final part and the Celts are at 2 cities.

"Hi Shaka, do you want all my material possessions and three cities to not fight?"

"Talk to the hand - not interested in peace."

@£$%!!!!!!!

Next turn. Turn ends and the map changes - Celts are down to one city. I need 2 turns.

Next turn. Turn ends and the Celts recover their city. Come on baby, you can do it!

Next Turn. Breath held. Guess not...

CULTURE LOSS BY ONE @£$%ING TURN!!! :wall bash:

Shaka is SO not invited to my next attempt...

Love your writeup R&T. Best of luck next time. Losing to. Shaka on culture, 1 turn away from the win, that sucks! Well gonna kick off this one, lets see how it goes.

 

[dcruze75]

Hehe, I was playing a duel map with Babylon against Mongols to see if that would be any easier (for Veni Vidi Vici). Usually, Genghis is really bad at building wonders. However, in this game, I think he had only three cities, and at one point he was pumping out two-three wonders every turn.

Cheating much?

He ended up winning a cultural victory, of course.

 

[vadalaz]

Got a t256 victory... would've been ~15 turns less had I signed another round of RAs, and maybe another couple of turns less if I took Order instead of Freedom. I completely butchered the late game. Oh well.

 

[chuckh89]

Got a t256 victory... would've been ~15 turns less had I signed another round of RAs, and maybe another couple of turns less if I took Order instead of Freedom. I completely butchered the late game. Oh well.

Nice Job!

I'm struggling (Mainly with getting religion, So frustrated that I think I would use El Dorado money on acquiring a faith CS ally...now that is desperate!)

If you get some time I would love to hear more details...please!

Did you get a religion?

What opponents did you choose?

Complete peaceful, or War early then peaceful?

 

[vadalaz]

Opponents: my continent - Pedro, Gandhi, Enrico; the other continent - Theodora, William, Ahmad, Harun. Basically a very friendly bunch, plus Harun and William are good for trading. So I had no wars except the first worker steal... DoFs and RAs were spammed all over the place. I should've probably included Sweden.

Religion-wise I was very lucky - had Sinai in my second city, and noone except me founded a religion on my continent, so it naturally spread to every city on it. Took Tithe, +15% food, +15% production and +30% spread range

I used a Tradition/Liberty mix, 4 cities, into Rationalism/Freedom. I thought it worked well, but Order would've probably been better ideology. Endgame beakers were pretty low - peaked at just over 1200 I think and mostly hovered around 1100-1150. But my main mistake was not signing a last round of RAs around t195-200. I guess I was expecting to finish around t240 so I didn't bother. Not good. Also lost World's Fair by like 50 hammers.

In retrospect, I should've probably just gone Tradition-Patronage/Commerce-Rationalism-Order. I'd try again but I think I'll play some games for VVV instead.

 

[chuckh89]

I'd try again but I think I'll play some games for VVV instead.

If I get a win, then I'm not playing again either...To many others that are more enjoyable!

 

[Bleidraner]

Opponents: my continent - Pedro, Gandhi, Enrico; the other continent - Theodora, William, Ahmad, Harun. Basically a very friendly bunch, plus Harun and William are good for trading. So I had no wars except the first worker steal... DoFs and RAs were spammed all over the place. I should've probably included Sweden.

Religion-wise I was very lucky - had Sinai in my second city, and noone except me founded a religion on my continent, so it naturally spread to every city on it. Took Tithe, +15% food, +15% production and +30% spread range

I used a Tradition/Liberty mix, 4 cities, into Rationalism/Freedom. I thought it worked well, but Order would've probably been better ideology. Endgame beakers were pretty low - peaked at just over 1200 I think and mostly hovered around 1100-1150. But my main mistake was not signing a last round of RAs around t195-200. I guess I was expecting to finish around t240 so I didn't bother. Not good. Also lost World's Fair by like 50 hammers.

In retrospect, I should've probably just gone Tradition-Patronage/Commerce-Rationalism-Order. I'd try again but I think I'll play some games for VVV instead.

Chose almost the same opponents, but with Haille instead of Ahmad. Just starting, I have my 4 cities down by t50 but no NC, and it will take at least 30 turns to get it. In Deity I am paranoid about being front settled, so wanted to secure the spots. No religion. I will give it 30 more turns, if it does not improve, reroll.

 

[chuckh89]

No religion.

I asked this question earlier,...Is NO religion (all spoken for, and off the board) a automatic ReRoll situation?

I have had some incredible starts (2 of them with El Dorado in my second city, and the 500 gold), another 11 camp (Couldn't even get a Pantheon), and the worst was a 7 fishing boat capital on a mountain w/God of the Sea Pantheon, But Religion escaped my grasp on all accounts. I ReRolled on all of those,...was that stupid!?


I also conquered Enrico 2 times because he was building Stonehenge,...I got his capital w/ Stonehenge completed...BUT, I didn't have a Pantheon in both situations and someone upgraded their religions robbing me both times with one turn left.(I swear Pantheons/Religion is just like Wonder building....You know, when your ready to complete a Wonder, But it always flies off the board with one turn left of production)

So, 3 cities by turn 55 (One puppeted w/ Stonehenge)...But, no Religion,...should I have ReRolled there...???

Any thoughts guys,...I'm Curious,....would you have ReRolled in those situations?

Chose almost the same opponents, but with Haille instead of Ahmad.

Haile was the one enhancing his religion, and thwarting my attempts,....I had to stop using him! I originally was hoping he would be my neighbor, and I would take him out early, and Hopefully his "Stele" would still be in his capital. Never happened, and his early faith was killing me!

 

[Bleidraner]

I asked this question earlier,...Is NO religion (all spoken for, and off the board) a automatic ReRoll situation?

No. I almost never get a religion in Deity. I only get it when I have a faith wonder. Pantheon, slightly easier, but still difficult. You can live without a religion, sometimes playing with somebody else's religion is an advantage, JE for instance is typically one of the first reformation beliefs to be taken, and it is great if you can get it into your cities. Almost like going Piety without having to spend the policies.

I have had some incredible starts (2 of them with El Dorado in my second city, and the 500 gold), another 11 camp (Couldn't even get a Pantheon), and the worst was a 7 fishing boat capital on a mountain w/God of the Sea Pantheon, But Religion escaped my grasp on all accounts. I ReRolled on all of those,...was that stupid!?

No, nothing is stupid. But any of those starts is significantly stronger than 90% of the ones I play. But i would not have rerolled any of those, maybe the camps one if no rivers or sea or mountains. Definitely would not have rerolled the El Dorado start.

I also conquered Enrico 2 times because he was building Stonehenge,...I got his capital w/ Stonehenge completed...BUT, I didn't have a Pantheon in both situations and someone upgraded their religions robbing me both times with one turn left.(I swear Pantheons/Religion is just like Wonder building....You know, when your ready to complete a Wonder, But it always flies off the board with one turn left of production)

So, 3 cities by turn 55 (One puppeted w/ Stonehenge)...But, no Religion,...should I have ReRolled there...???

Definitely no. That is a GREAT start.

Any thoughts guys,...I'm Curious,....would you have ReRolled in those situations?

Maybe the camps if everything else was terrible. Chuck your expectations are too high I think. All those are great starts.

Haile was the one enhancing his religion, and thwarting my attempts,....I had to stop using him! I originally was hoping he would be my neighbor, and I would take him out early, and Hopefully his "Stele" would still be in his capital. Never happened, and his early faith was killing me!

In Deity, I always choose him, as he is peaceful, does not generally city spam, just the first 2. Harar, for some reason, always far from the cap. And he always reforms his religion, if he is your neighbor you will end up with his religion, usually a pretty strong one.

But in lower levels, where you can get things like Petra and in my strategy I count on getting a Pantheon or a religion, then I don't invite him.

 

[Mesix]

I asked this question earlier,...Is NO religion (all spoken for, and off the board) a automatic ReRoll situation?

I have had some incredible starts (2 of them with El Dorado in my second city, and the 500 gold), another 11 camp (Couldn't even get a Pantheon), and the worst was a 7 fishing boat capital on a mountain w/God of the Sea Pantheon, But Religion escaped my grasp on all accounts. I ReRolled on all of those,...was that stupid!?


I also conquered Enrico 2 times because he was building Stonehenge,...I got his capital w/ Stonehenge completed...BUT, I didn't have a Pantheon in both situations and someone upgraded their religions robbing me both times with one turn left.(I swear Pantheons/Religion is just like Wonder building....You know, when your ready to complete a Wonder, But it always flies off the board with one turn left of production)

So, 3 cities by turn 55 (One puppeted w/ Stonehenge)...But, no Religion,...should I have ReRolled there...???

Any thoughts guys,...I'm Curious,....would you have ReRolled in those situations?



Haile was the one enhancing his religion, and thwarting my attempts,....I had to stop using him! I originally was hoping he would be my neighbor, and I would take him out early, and Hopefully his "Stele" would still be in his capital. Never happened, and his early faith was killing me!

The only thing you really get from founding the religion are the founder belief and control over what the other beliefs are (although there is competition for that).

On Deity, I would suggest not to focus on religion at all. The AI players will found religions and spread them aggressively to your cities. Use to build religious buildings (Cathedrals et al) as they are available early in the game (from AI religions) because the extra , , and are nice over the duration of the game. After that, save your to buy late game GS to bulb technologies.

 

[chuckh89]

The only thing you really get from founding the religion are the founder belief and control over what the other beliefs are (although there is competition for that).

On Deity, I would suggest not to focus on religion at all. The AI players will found religions and spread them aggressively to your cities. Use to build religious buildings (Cathedrals et al) as they are available early in the game (from AI religions) because the extra , , and are nice over the duration of the game. After that, save your to buy late game GS to bulb technologies.

No. I almost never get a religion in Deity. I only get it when I have a faith wonder. Pantheon, slightly easier, but still difficult. You can live without a religion, sometimes playing with somebody else's religion is an advantage, JE for instance is typically one of the first reformation beliefs to be taken, and it is great if you can get it into your cities.

Religion-wise I was very lucky - had Sinai in my second city, and noone except me founded a religion on my continent, so it naturally spread to every city on it. Took Tithe, +15% food, +15% production and +30% spread range.

Thanks guys, next time I get a nice setup I will play it out, and see what happens...?? I still think the +15% food and +15% production is a HUGE advantage in this Gauntlet. (Especially since the dominating strategy is staying peaceful) On Deity, spreading religion to CSs and AI Civs really not a part of the game plan, but I would like to see it in my first 4 cities...Probably something that will separate medalists from (just) winners in this Gauntlet.

 

[Bleidraner]

Thanks guys, next time I get a nice setup I will play it out, and see what happens...?? I still think the +15% food and +15% production is a HUGE advantage in this Gauntlet. (Especially since the dominating strategy is staying peaceful) On Deity, spreading religion to CSs and AI Civs really not a part of the game plan, but I would like to see it in my first 4 cities...Probably something that will separate medalists from (just) winners in this Gauntlet.

Well it is not one of the other: play the El Dorado starts, do a great game, then roll again and do another game where you get a religion (basically unless the AIs don't go for religion, get a faith wonder and work it).

I am not saying Religion is not strong; it is and I wish I could get one.

By the way this is totally unfair, in the 1000s of hours I have logged in this game I have only once got an El Dorado start where I got the 500 and never on Deity.

 

[chuckh89]

Well it is not one of the other: play the El Dorado starts, do a great game, then roll again and do another game where you get a religion (basically unless the AIs don't go for religion, get a faith wonder and work it).

I am not saying Religion is not strong; it is and I wish I could get one.

By the way this is totally unfair, in the 1000s of hours I have logged in this game I have only once got an El Dorado start where I got the 500 and never on Deity.

Ha, Ha,...It was actually the third El Dorado on this Gauntlet, but I didn't get possession of the third before quitting. Don't worry! Now that I am committed to for the long haul....It will never happen!!

 

[Cromagnus]

What will separate winners from medalists in this gauntlet is not securing a religion or getting 4 city NC out by t60, or getting el dorado or a 5-salt start...

What will separate the medalists is a combination of the following:

Production. Ok there's more to it than that. But that's really it. Happiness and culture are super important and on Deity you need to win a few key wonder races, including worlds fair, to post a competitive finish. Technically it can be done without WF, especially as Alexander but it requires some serious CS luck.

Here's what else it takes IMHO.

1) Taking what the map gives you.
2) Expert micro-management of diplomacy.
3) Winning world's fair (see above... The best way to win the fair is to embroil everyone else in a war)
4) Managing happiness (see #2)
5) A great start. (Ok so I lied. A great start matters, but the definition of a great start is not necessarily what you can see within 10 hexes)

I've gotten sub-t100 education with a t110 national college. Deity is different. +15% growth? Hardly necessary. You can easily max out happiness. So, win those Wonder races and WF or you wont have the culture (and therefore happiness) to max out growth.

I'm doing a deity refresher attempt right now and I wasn't going to submit it, but I may not have time for a second attempt. No wonders, no WF, late labs, etc etc, generally a terrible run, looking like a t290 finish. Great reminder of how key diplomacy and production are.

Tip for those who may not know or who've forgotten: 1 pt of patronage equals 0.25 faction lost per turn. If you spread your religion that drops to zero. You can easily ally half the CS early and keep them allies even on deity. Unfortunately Alexander's UA, despite that, is completely gimped on deity. The ai spies, coups, and their deep pockets, almost nullify his one big advantage. Unless you're willing to deprioritize a fast finish, in which case you can probably keep 8+ allies, but doing so is counterproductive for gauntlet play. /shrug

Alexander is way more fun on immortal or below.

EDIT: Finished t279. Decided I'd only submit such a sub-par run if I didn't have time to play another. Promptly forgot this was my plan, and started another few maps looking for something Petra-worthy... *without backing up the autosave directory*, thus wiping all of the autosaves from that run. Leaving me with nothing to submit. Guess I'm doing another full run regardless.

 

[Bleidraner]

So I am on 191, and have decided to go Order. Now that's great, and apparently the right thing to do, but I have always played Science games with Freedom, so I have absolutely no idea how to play the end game. Just to give you an idea, this will be the first time I build as opposed to buy, the SS. Engine. Any advice?

Cro, those wonder races, are they Porcelain Tower, World's Fair, Hubble, Kremlin, maybe Oracle? If that is the case, I have already lost PT and Oracle. Not to speak about a 120 Edu with t130 Unis. Talk about subpar.

By the way, I would be extremely happy with the 279.

 

[vadalaz]

When I go Order I focus on production in the late game. You'll want 2-3 cities with very good production, choose them early and have them ready by the time you need to build SS parts. Railroads, Spaceship factories are a must, Solar/Nuclear/Hydro plants help a lot as well. Mine all the hills, including riverside ones and get the 5-year plan policy. If you can shave a turn or two off by starving the cities in the end, do it. You can also try to store up a good hammer overflow just before building the parts. Not sure what the cap on that is, I always forget to do it anyway.

When you rush SS parts with GEs, use them in your highest population city, otherwise a GE might not be enough to 1-turn a part. Try to find a good balance between Great Scientists and Engineers - estimate how many beakers you'll need in bulbs and how long it takes to build parts in your cities, and try to find a combination of GS/GEs that will lead you to victory in the quickest way possible.