Gandalf (Wizard)

[Nomad or What]

Also, one other thought... I recall when looking at the effects from G&K, the Great Prophet has a pair of effects associated with the founding of a religion (a burst of light and something else). While the number of attack spells that don't actually fire projectiles is probably rather slim, I do wonder if it's another possible effect to tie to a spellcasting -- perhaps for some kind of Charm or Death spell or whatnot, that could hurt an enemy without actually firing something at them...

You could do a "Dagger Storm" by using the Trireme's attack effects...and the effects from a rifle flash might look good as well.

I would love to see what everyone can come up with, I am sure there are a lot of effects to explore.

So, it sounds like a tutorial is in order. I will throw something together to get the basics down so that we can see what everyone's imagination can unleash!

 

[bouncymischa]

I would love to see what everyone can come up with, I am sure there are a lot of effects to explore.

So, it sounds like a tutorial is in order. I will throw something together to get the basics down so that we can see what everyone's imagination can unleash!

A tutorial would probably be really helpful -- I've still got some of the WH40K models Skajaquada made that I haven't been able to make full use of because of the way their effects are set up. I'm hoping that if I can figure out how this method of attaching effects works, I could attach new effects to the models to make Railgun Tanks and such...

 

[Civitar]

Didn't Skajaquada have some custom effects? If we could look at those, we might be able to do tons of new spells, even if it's as simple as recoloring dromon fire or plasma rays.

 

[bouncymischa]

Didn't Skajaquada have some custom effects? If we could look at those, we might be able to do tons of new spells, even if it's as simple as recoloring dromon fire or plasma rays.

He did! Most notable, I remember he had this "plasma ball" effect used by some of his tanks:



I didn't bring it up before, though, because so far I haven't been able to find any modular way to include new effects in the game -- the only way I've gotten them to work is by adding them to the core files of the game (at least, adding them to the effects files for G&K). If there is a way to add these effects to the game, they could provide a very nice fireball effect, though.

 

[Civitar]

@bouncymischa: Thanks a lot, I think you may have just given effect modding a shot in the arm.
@Nomad or What: I think you and I need to take some close looks at Skajaquada's WH40K mod (or whatever he completed of it). I know I'll definitely be taking a look at it.

 

[Nomad or What]

@bouncymischa: Thanks a lot, I think you may have just given effect modding a shot in the arm.
@Nomad or What: I think you and I need to take some close looks at Skajaquada's WH40K mod (or whatever he completed of it). I know I'll definitely be taking a look at it.

It looks to me as though he just applied the mech railgun effects to the bore of the tank turret. Am I mistaken?

 

[bouncymischa]

It looks to me as though he just applied the mech railgun effects to the bore of the tank turret. Am I mistaken?

It's been a while since I played around with either GDRs or the WH40K models... but from what I (vaguely) recall, the railgun tends to look like a narrow scintillating blue beam, while the plasma projectiles were more obvious blue-white balls of energy with a tail of energy. It could be that he just used the explosions from the impacts of the railguns as a projectile, or something. I'll have to poke around with the code tonight, and see if I can get any better pictures. (I'll try and set up one of the WH40K models with a ranged attack to see if I can get better pictures of it firing.)

 

[Civitar]

He may have in that pic, but there are some other ones that you can see, like three pointed bursts of flame from some of his tanks firing. And the railgun flash from your Wizards look a bit darker blue to me. Check the code here out, I think it might have something to do with the new effects.
Do you happen to know how to open a .psb file? The bits and pieces of base Civ5 code I have been able to find relating to effects have all led back to a bunch of those, which I have no more idea how to open than my dog knows how to take a bath... finally, I think we should probably move this to a new thread in C&C unless Nomad doesn't mind having his thread hijacked.

 

[bouncymischa]

Actually, looking at my copy of the WH40K code, it looks like Skajaquada was just reusing the existing effects in some unique ways:

	<!--  _______ Mech Projectile Trail _______   -->
	<VisEffectArtInfo>
		<Row>
			<Name>ART_DEF_VEFFECT_TRAIL_PLASMA_CANNON_PROJ</Name>
			<Transform>
				<Translation x="0.0" y="0.0" z="0.0"/>
				<Rotation x="90.0" y="0.0" z="0.0"/>
				<Scale>0.02</Scale>
			</Transform>
			<fBaseDuration>0.01</fBaseDuration>
			<fBaseDurationScale>1.0</fBaseDurationScale>
			<ParticleEffects>
				<ParticleEffect>
					<Name>ART_DEF_PEFFECT_TRAIL_PULSE_PROJECTILE_01</Name>
					<!--       
<Name>ART_DEF_PEFFECT_TRAIL_RAILGUN_PROJ</Name> -->
				</ParticleEffect>
			</ParticleEffects>
			<ChildEffects>
				<ChildEffect trigger="ProjectileEnd">
					<Name>ART_DEF_VEFFECT_RAILGUN_IMPACT_$(TERRAIN)</Name>
				</ChildEffect>
			</ChildEffects>
		</Row>
	</VisEffectArtInfo>

So the plasma 'projectile' appears to be one of the railgun effects. Sorry about that! ^^;

 

[Nomad or What]

Do you happen to know how to open a .psb file? The bits and pieces of base Civ5 code I have been able to find relating to effects have all led back to a bunch of those, which I have no more idea how to open than my dog knows how to take a bath... finally, I think we should probably move this to a new thread in C&C unless Nomad doesn't mind having his thread hijacked.

.psb files are proprietary Adobe files, similar to .psd files but without size limitations. They can only be opened with Photoshop and there is no way to convert them back-and-forth apart from owning a copy of it.

No worries about hijacking the thread; I added the custom effects to these wizards to get this very dialogue in motion. Speaking of which, the tutorial is done; it is here.

 

[Nomad or What]

Actually, looking at my copy of the WH40K code, it looks like Skajaquada was just reusing the existing effects in some unique ways:

So the plasma 'projectile' appears to be one of the railgun effects. Sorry about that! ^^;

This is actually still very informative and useful information. A lot can be done with tweaking existing effects; I haven't gotten that far yet with my experimentation. I will definitely take a closer look at it.

 

[Civitar]

So, with the stuff from Skajaquada's effects modifying, do you suppose we could (as an experiment) remove the torch from the city attack animations and just leave the fires? I'm afraid that this is rapidly going over my head though, I want to try and do some simple effects with Skaven Warp Lightning Cannons (they should have green muzzle flashes) or the Dragon to lock down the ability to work with effects at all. One thing at a time.
Really, I'd be happy if we could only recolor existing effects, for example purple Dromon fire would be extremely magical looking.
And Nomad, there isn't even a plugin for GIMP to open PSB?

 

[bouncymischa]

Looking at Skajaquada's code, he does have distinct viseffects for muzzle flashes and projectiles, so it's probably possible if you want to use something like the plasma gun's muzzle flash with a different projectile if you wanted. (Although isn't warp lightning green? I'll admit, I haven't seen enough of the Warhammer Fantasy art to say for sure, but I would've thought the plasma gun would be fine for it...)

Also, regarding torch projectiles:

<!--  _______ Cannon QTip Fire  _______   -->
	<VisEffectArtInfo>
		<Row>
			<Name>ART_DEF_VEFFECT_FIRE_EXHAUST</Name>
			<Transform>
				<Translation x="0.0" y="0.0" z="20.0"/>
				<Rotation x="90.0" y="90.0" z="0.0"/>
				<Scale>0.03</Scale>
			</Transform>
			<fBaseDuration>0.1</fBaseDuration>
			<fBaseDurationScale>1.0</fBaseDurationScale>
			<ParticleEffects>
				<ParticleEffect>
					<Name>ART_DEF_PEFFECT_FIRE_TORCH_SM</Name>
				</ParticleEffect>
			</ParticleEffects>
		</Row>
	</VisEffectArtInfo>

	<!--  _______ Cannon QTip Fire  _______   -->
	<VisEffectArtInfo>
		<Row>
			<Name>ART_DEF_VEFFECT_FLAMER_PROJECTILE</Name>
			<Transform>
				<Translation x="0.0" y="0.0" z="20.0"/>
				<Rotation x="90.0" y="90.0" z="0.0"/>
				<Scale>0.15</Scale>
			</Transform>
			<fBaseDuration>0.1</fBaseDuration>
			<fBaseDurationScale>1.0</fBaseDurationScale>
			<ParticleEffects>
				<ParticleEffect>
					<Name>ART_DEF_PEFFECT_FIRE_TORCH_SM</Name>
				</ParticleEffect>
			</ParticleEffects>
		</Row>
	</VisEffectArtInfo>
	<!--  _______ Cannon QTip Fire  _______   -->
	<VisEffectArtInfo>
		<Row>
			<Name>ART_DEF_VEFFECT_FLAMER_IMPACT</Name>
			<Transform>
				<Translation x="0.0" y="0.0" z="20.0"/>
				<Rotation x="90.0" y="90.0" z="0.0"/>
				<Scale>0.3</Scale>
			</Transform>
			<fBaseDuration>0.1</fBaseDuration>
			<fBaseDurationScale>1.0</fBaseDurationScale>
			<ParticleEffects>
				<ParticleEffect>
					<Name>ART_DEF_PEFFECT_FIRE_TORCH_SM</Name>
				</ParticleEffect>
			</ParticleEffects>
		</Row>
	</VisEffectArtInfo>

I know Skajaquada's tanks had this "flame exhaust" while they moved about, that apparently uses the torch fire animation, but doesn't seem to include the torch itself, so it should be possible. I think the tricky part in this case is the inability to add viseffects dynamically. Still, you could experiment with adding these sorts of effects to see what results. Looking at Nomad's wizard files compared to Skaja's files, all you'd really need to do is replace the various ART_DEF_VEFFECT references with custom ones. As I said before, I don't know if there's any way to dynamically add new viseffects to the game, but at least for the purposes of testing you can add them to the G&K viseffects file (Civ5ArtDefines_VisEffects_Expansion). It's how I got the WH40K effects to work before...

(As for recoloring existing effects, that's quite out of my league, I'm afraid... X3)

 

[Nomad or What]

And Nomad, there isn't even a plugin for GIMP to open PSB?

There is a .psd plugin but no .psb plugin. I think I even found something that would convert to .psb from .psd but not the reverse. There are a few modders that have Photoshop, though, so it may just be a process of asking someone to convert back and forth for us.

Looking at Skajaquada's code, he does have distinct viseffects for muzzle flashes and projectiles, so it's probably possible if you want to use something like the plasma gun's muzzle flash with a different projectile if you wanted.

This code is indeed a whole new approach; he is using ArtDefines to completely transform existing effects, not simply apply the base effect to different event codes within the .ftsxml as I have done. I also noticed that they appear to be scalable, which could overcome what I thought was a limitation with the effects on custom units. This certainly adds a lot of capabilities even for existing effects. I don't think it would add the capability of recoloring them, however....

 

[Civitar]

Do you have a link to the plugin to convert from psb to psd? GIMP can open psd fine by itself, at least for me.
And, bouncymischa, I intend to use the plasma gun only if I absolutely have to, since it's a laser and the warpstone devices are just green gunpowder and bullets. Though, of course, I need to get the unit models done before I can give them any effects.
You know who would really love custom effects though? ...Star Wars modders.

 

[Nutty]

While Photoshop uses the .psb extension, these aren't actually Photoshop .psb's; they're something else.

 

[Nomad or What]

While Photoshop uses the .psb extension, these aren't actually Photoshop .psb's; they're something else.

That actually makes sense, since most of the files are way too small to use as a .psb (which is typically for really large files).

 

[Civitar]

Oh, great. So what can we do to look at the PSB files in the Resource/Common folder?

 

[Pazyryk]

Also, one other thought... I recall when looking at the effects from G&K, the Great Prophet has a pair of effects associated with the founding of a religion (a burst of light and something else). While the number of attack spells that don't actually fire projectiles is probably rather slim, I do wonder if it's another possible effect to tie to a spellcasting -- perhaps for some kind of Charm or Death spell or whatnot, that could hurt an enemy without actually firing something at them...

I remember very clearly a blue flash associated with prophet action or maybe it was missionary conversion. I would love to get that effect on a magic unit. I don't even know if it is a unit animation or a graphic applied externally (more analogous to the unit selection "light from above" effect).

 

[bouncymischa]

I remember very clearly a blue flash associated with prophet action or maybe it was missionary conversion. I would love to get that effect on a magic unit. I don't even know if it is a unit animation or a graphic applied externally (more analogous to the unit selection "light from above" effect).

It came to mind when I was looking at the G&K viseffects files, because that's where I'd put Skaja's unique art defines before to use them. The prophet would appear to use these effects:

 <!--  _______ Great Prophet GodRay _______   -->
  <VisEffectArtInfo>
    <Name>ART_DEF_VEFFECT_RELIGION_ACTIVATE</Name>
    <Transform>
      <Translation x="0.0" y="0.0" z="15.0"/>
      <Rotation x="90.0" y="0.0" z="0.0"/>
      <Scale>20.0</Scale>
    </Transform>
    <fBaseDuration>0.1</fBaseDuration>
    <fBaseDurationScale>1.0</fBaseDurationScale>
    <ParticleEffects>
      <ParticleEffect>
        <Name>ART_DEF_PEFFECT_RELIGION_ACTIVATE</Name>
      </ParticleEffect>
    </ParticleEffects>
  </VisEffectArtInfo>
  <!--  _______ Great Prophet Flash _______   -->
  <VisEffectArtInfo>
    <Name>ART_DEF_VEFFECT_RELIGION_ACTIVATE_FLASH</Name>
    <Transform>
      <Translation x="0.0" y="0.0" z="10.0"/>
      <Rotation x="90.0" y="0.0" z="0.0"/>
      <Scale>25.0</Scale>
    </Transform>
    <fBaseDuration>0.1</fBaseDuration>
    <fBaseDurationScale>1.0</fBaseDurationScale>
    <ParticleEffects>
      <ParticleEffect>
        <Name>ART_DEF_PEFFECT_RELIGION_ACTIVATE_FLASH</Name>
      </ParticleEffect>
    </ParticleEffects>
  </VisEffectArtInfo>

who wouldn't want a cool GodRay spell??

I suspect the trick will just be tracking down the code for the great prophet effect.