General Strategy to Counter Zulu Freaks in MP

[TheTopCat]

because french are IMO the worst civilization of the world of civ rev.

Russia are really good if used well.

Mongols? Used in the right way...

If you use the French in the right way...

If you use any Civ the right way...

If my Auntie had testicles, she'd be my Uncle...

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, Morte, including yourself, so let someone else have a say without flaming them.

 

[MorteEterna]

I love Zulu rushing; they're one of my favourite Civs. So, I'm (reluctantly) putting up a few thoughts for interpretation.

Thinking from the point of view of how I go about rushing, my strategy tends to be to churn out Impi warriors one after another, forsaking growth and research and spending everything I get from Barbarians and Villages on more Impi Warriors. So the first 10-20 turns my only city would be investing all resources in picking up Villages and Barbarians and desperately trying to find other Civs before they have researched and implemented Bronze Working.

An Archer Army ends all charge. It's that simple. In a Zulu rush strategy, my worst nightmare is to have spent everything on Impi Warriors and not take more than one city. If I know the enemy has an Archer Army, then the next thing to try and do is contain that enemy by strangling their city (placing my Impi Warriors in each land tile around the city to stop resources being available) until a later time when I can beat the Archers.

I haven't really thought about how I would counter this, but from experience and from my own opinions, here are some Civs you could look to use (in no particular order):

1) Greeks: Democracy, Courthouse & Hoplites should prove a good counter, with the 50% research/gold bonus under a Democracy you should be able to leap ahead on the Tech front, Courthouse makes the aforementioned strangling difficult (though not impossible ) and Hoplites speak for themselves.

2) English: Longbow defence plus Monarchy culture bonus can provide a solid foundation to build on with a view to getting Knights as early as possible and taking the fight to the Zulu. Culture expands borders for a slightly earlier warning.

3) French: Cathedral culture bonus and Pottery with a view to Masonry. Although an archer army alone should suffice without City Walls, with City Walls two fortified Archers should prove adequate (one for luck, just in case) and again culture will expand those borders for an earlier warning.

4) Aztecs: units heal after combat victory and 25g, this is a big advantage and I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet. Two fortified archers should suffice early on but go for an army for that extra insurance.

5) Spanish: Navigation, Galleons could prove useful for finding Atlantis, escaping overseas and Naval Support. Though a little sketchy.

6) Japanese: +1 food from sea regions allows research and growth for rushing Bronze Working, +1 Samurai Knight attack for when you want to take the fight to the enemy.

With all the above, if I suspected a Zulu rusher in the midst, I would still look to try and get one maybe two Barbarians/Villages under my belt whilst concentrating on 'rush-proofing' my Capital city.

If you’re facing a Zulu rusher, watch out for the Chinese! They start with Writing, which if a Zulu rusher gets their hands on means Spies will come and destroy your City Walls and Fortifications.

Eventually you need to think about expanding (unless you're the ultimate OCC player, in which case you carry on and do your thing) and you ideally need to do it in a place where the Zulu rusher won't be able to find it. If the geography permits it and you've been lucky enough, your Capital may be plugging a bottle-neck on a peninsula (not sure what a peninsula is? Land surrounded by water on three sides. Still not sure? Wikipedia is your friend). Build your city/cities behind it and let your Capital be the best defence. Alternatively, you may need to build an Archer Army to escort the Settlers and protect the new founded city; or you could just escape overseas. (If you are confident using the French and their culture, you could use the city conversion tactic to get ahead for a culture victory.)

Another geography tip: build your cities on hills for a 50% defence bonus, if the resources around make it worthwhile. The opposite is also worth noting: try not to build cities next to hills; it gives the attacker a 50% bonus.

Just remember that if you do try to adopt the above, your objective is not just to survive, but to go on to win! Depending on your playing style and the circumstances you'll need to adapt accordingly. You could always try to beat them at their own game and ‘out-rush’ them (just had a thought, three or four Zulu rushers in one game, now that would be messy).

Another quick tip: if Barbarians give you a Galley, try sticking your attacking unit on the Galley. A Zulu rusher may leave their Capital empty because they've so many land units moving out of their Capital, they think they'd spot any attacks coming (not by sea though). You might just be able to waltz into an empty Capital straight off the boat, making the rusher look a little silly.

If all else fails, just pray that you start on a large island on your own with lots of Villages and Barbarians!

Good luck, hope this helps

Maybe you are really slow as a zulu rusher, but I usually have an army in 5-6 turns, 4 tiles next to my cap and probrably near a capital. You suggest things that nobody is going to do. Cathedral does nothing in the first turns, same for Monarchy, you don't start with bronze working and +50% defence is not going to help. Getting walls in your capital is a real waste of time then.
Japan good at defending to zulu? Are you joking? They have no starting bonuses to help in defending. NO BONUSES. If Aztecs just build archers, that would be a noob probrably. I have never seen good players building archers as Aztecs, unless they got a really bad start and try to defend against Arabs or horse rushers

 

[TheTopCat]

Yet another positive contribution, Morte.

I offered my ideas, so why not offer yours?

(and btw, any Civ can be used to defend from a Zulu rush provided you play to the strengths of that Civ and yourself.)

Edit: Just out of curiosity... an army in 5-6 turns? Takes 3 turns to produce 1 warrior, you must get v lucky with your settler start points...

 

[MorteEterna]

Yet another positive contribution, Morte.

I offered my ideas, so why not offer yours?

(and btw, any Civ can be used to defend from a Zulu rush provided you play to the strengths of that Civ and yourself.)

Edit: Just out of curiosity... an army in 5-6 turns? Takes 3 turns to produce 1 warrior, you must get v lucky with your settler start points...

I hate that sarcasm. I'm pretty sure I have helped thousands of players, or at least I tried it. In this forum I'm not posting many strategies because I seem to find more criticism and less comments. There are a lot of ways to stop Zulu but those are not the way to stop them, just wasting hammers/beakers. Japan won't defend better thank's to the +1 food, that's only a +10 food working on bronze working. An army in 5-6 turns? Luck? Are you kidding me? It happens 90% of the times that I have an army in 5 turns. Other 10% is bad luck. Simple:

1 warrior in 3 turn. You can move the settler, but not needed. You get a barb in 3700 BC if you are pretty lucky, you rush another warrior by 3700 BC and rush the other at 3600 and move the army 4 tiles away from the cap. If you aren't that lucky (that's 2 tiles away), you have the army by 3500 BC.

If I see there will be more comments, and less criticism with this sarcasm, I will post more strategies in this forum.

 

[GGrayson]

Yet another positive contribution, Morte.

I offered my ideas, so why not offer yours?

(and btw, any Civ can be used to defend from a Zulu rush provided you play to the strengths of that Civ and yourself.)

Edit: Just out of curiosity... an army in 5-6 turns? Takes 3 turns to produce 1 warrior, you must get v lucky with your settler start points...

wow, um..... I disagree w/ almost everything you have said in this thread.

A single archer is enough to stop an impi army most of the time, after you get to that point, you shouldn't have to worry about impis, but you don't really need to anyway, warriors can hold of the Zulu. They are only a threat in the first 10 turns or so, after that, it's usually bad skill that loses to the Zulu.

The Greeks may be ok to stop the Zulu, but it still takes more hammers and time to get things going for them, because pikemen aren't cheap. And Zulus usually get a few spies from huts/villages, which will take care of the Greek Courthouse and French Cathedral.

But, my main point of contention is anyone who says the French are good a combating the Zulu. 20 less beakers to research Masonary is not really that big of a deal. The Wall doesn't provide 100% defense in a capital, only 50%, so it's not even used to its full potential. So you're spending 30 beakers to get masonary right away, and then hoping warriors will stop the Zulu? Oh,,, you also recommend they get at least 2 archers??? Oh, ok.....

So you're spending 30 beakers on Masonary, 20 on Bronze Working, and then 20 hammers on two archers.... Or, you could just research Bronze for 20 beakers, and get an archer army for 30 hammers.

The Free Wall is not that great of a bonus, and the French are the worst civ in the game. Many players have tried to convince me that this isn't the case, and have never been able to prove it in many challenges. Almost all of the top players agree that if they aren't the worst, they are the 2nd worst at best. All they have is reliance on culture, which isn't that great of a thing to rely on. GPs are tactical tools, not strategic ones. The Free Wall is a bumb in the road to a rusher, not a roadblock. Free Pottery is one of the worst starting bonuses in the game, as it doesn't do much for you at the beginning, and only helps you get two techs faster, and the ability to build a granary.

And yes, a Zulu player should have an army in around 3500-3300BC, basically rushing a warrior a turn. It's unlucky/bad skill to have anything slower than this.

 

[ScottieX]

French strategy vs Zulu

As with any other civ - walk your settler and grab a AI cap if possible. Settle and get some gold.

Now try to cover the various approach routes for the zulu.

Get your 100g settler then push him towards where you think the zulu are and target a GA.

Now one of two things happen you find him (about 50% of the time) in which case you either surrender your cap or your 100g city to the zulu player and flip it back soon as he takes it, then watch him quit (if he is a noob which is very likely) or you build up some defenses and are at least in a better position than some other civs.

OR you meet AI and then start constantly asking them if thy have met him. if they do try to contact them when you can't see their units so that you can uncover their cap then wait for him to take their cap then flip it back. Now you have 2 or 3 caps and a WA and a 100g city and he probably has 2 cities and his units out of position and is ready for you to bring the pain

I know this may require them to be noobs - but I note that by this standard the large majority of players are noobs because I very rarely loose to Zulus...