Germany: obsoleted at discovery of Zulu

[aluelkdf]

It would be nice to see Germany re-worked into a science/engineering civ. Maybe they could do something like each great engineer improvement provides +4 science.

The Germans are known for engineering. In America they have commercials for German automobiles. And they always talk about "German Engineering" as a selling point. If Americans hear that the something was engineered by Germans, then it must be good. But there is never any talk about "Chinese engineering", or "French Engineering", only German Engineering.

 

[JustinianIV]

It would be nice to see Germany re-worked into a science/engineering civ. Maybe they could do something like each great engineer improvement provides +4 science.

The Germans are known for engineering. In America they have commercials for German automobiles. And they always talk about "German Engineering" as a selling point. If Americans hear that the something was engineered by Germans, then it must be good. But there is never any talk about "Chinese engineering", or "French Engineering", only German Engineering.

But that would be portraying Germany in a positive light, something the west doesn't like to do. I do agree though, it would be more befitting. It doesn't make sense to keep making Germany geared around what they were not successful at (warfare) while overlooking their true strength.

My idea for Germany's UA would basically be the same as Babylon, but with GEs instead of GSs. And perhaps ditch Otto for Willy Brandt or Helmut Schmidt. The UA could be the "Wirtschaftswunder".

Not German, I just live in Germany.

 

[Dtekkar]

I think the reason for them hiding the "melee" and "Melee" post-gunpowder distinction is to prevent overwhelming newer players with (relatively) insignificant information. I bet "Melee" units were called something else initially, but players were getting confused in later era weaponry. Someone in QA said "how do I use air units? Why were these rifle units were taking counterattack damage on striking when my archers could bombard?" etc. and it was probably a rushed change to address that.

 

[Wuddel]

Its really tiring to always see Germany portrayed as a warmonger. What is especially ridiculous in Civ5 that there are a ancient era warmonger, but are led by a industrial era leader, who was mainly a diplomat(!), but Germany is of course mostly know for the modern world wars.

Before the world war the language of science was German. An enormous amount of nobel laureates were German (until they all migrated/were forced out).

But more importantly. The devs talked on the Polycast about they not liking randomness that much. Why then have a chance based UA? (same goes for the Ottomans of course).

 

[The A.K.T]

Bismarck started 3 wars and still shouldent be portraitet as a warmonger?

 

[Wuddel]

Bismarck started 3 wars and still shouldent be portraitet as a warmonger?

Meh, different times. 2 of these were sort of civil wars anyway, and where very short and relatively limited. He did so to found modern Germany, that under his rule was relatively peaceful preventing a 19. century world war.

 

[bison21]

I had recently posted this suggestion, and I wonder what people think.

With the recent BNW addition and the extreme focus on World Congress and diplomacy, I come to wonder whether it would not be very interesting to include Post-WW2 Germany in the Game as opposed to a historic version (in a next civ game perhaps).

I think with its dominant position in the EU, very strong economy (through exports) and the extreme reluctance to engage in military actions, always seeking the diplomatic route first, it would make such an interesting Civ to play. I had been toying with the idea that this Civ would receive military modifiers based on its diplomatic relations, perhaps upon entering a certain era (this would reflect the weak military and its reliance on NATO forces).

In addition, it could get a bonus for trade-routes to other continents (reflecting the export focus) and perhaps additional diplomats (reflecting its strong position in the UN given that it is not a member of the security council).

A civ like this might has to make use of defense agreements which to this date seem to be an uneasy settlement. So Post-ww2 Germany would receive heavy penalty for warmongering, but no penalties for being attacked. Preferred victory strategies with this civ would be any but domination, and tall rather than wide spread.


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Edit: As for the previous suggestions: I don't understand how the barbarian trait fits with Bismarck at all. Clearly it is a reference to pre-Germany times, either as resistance towards the roman empire or perhaps reflecting early medieval Europe. I get it, but it just seems such a let-down for a country with a vast economic, scientific and cultural history... I mean I could see the Huns getting such a trait.

 

[Wuddel]

Not really. Civs in Civ are never represented in a certain era, when they survived many.

yeah. Germany is a weird one, with so many political entities having controlled its territory, and the modern state being refounded several times.

There is a ridiculous mod for a Merkel led germany with tons of UU and UB. I hate it when modders ignore balance.

 

[Mercurio]

Anyways the Panzer is fine. It's perhaps rather late, but they do work well. Strong and quick: combined with planes there's not much that stops them on land.
Landsknecht is just meh. Generally you're better off in the game with quality units than whole heaps of pikemen. Especially when trying to take some city with limited access. Needs a buff or a replacement UB or something. As suggested I'd also like a unique factory or workshop (like Civ4).
25% off of land unit maintenance is pretty okay, but the barb conversion isn't too great. I can't seem to have that many gold early to really field a giant army early game nor upgrade them into swordsmen.

I'd also like Frederick II. (But Bismarck is fine, I guess.)

 

[JustinianIV]

Bismarck started 3 wars and still shouldent be portraitet as a warmonger?

It's not about giving UAs based on what the civs have done, it's about giving them UAs based on what they are good at. The Germans have not been very successful in their warfare, so it seems silly to push them as warmongers.

Its like making Greece have a UA where they get some sort of economic buff. After all, they did try to have a good economy.

 

[aluelkdf]

But that would be portraying Germany in a positive light, something the west doesn't like to do. I do agree though, it would be more befitting.

Of course. Germany needs to be demonized forever, because of an even that happened almost 100 years ago. Certain groups need this so that they can get away with their crimes.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

I'm in agreement that Germans should be an engineering based civ with science sprinkled in there. Creating GE's would be a nice niche since they're so fun to use, but just mass production should be something the Germans are good at, as well as getting tech at a faster rate than the average civ.


The Barbarian thing is cute, but that should really be more of an 'ancient' Germany type of deal. They need two civs to represent the German region imo.

 

[ScottMcPwn]

Just get the Hitler mod, fixes it all.

 

[Kogorn733]

I still have yet to play as many BNW games as I'd like, but in what I've played so far, while the AI's tendency to engage in early wars has decreased, the tendency to engage in late-game wars has INCREASED. In my current game, I just had a huge navy/air battle with Rome as Portugal. Rome has been gunning for a domination victory and I have 4 trade-heavy cities on a separate island all to myself. Rome just researched atomic theory so I've been building up a strong navy to knock out nuke-carriers if they decide to go that route.

Anyway, the point of this diatribe is that the Panzer might have a more useful role to play with the greater emphasis on late-era warfare. Also, it's not a weak unit. In my Germany game pre-BNW, I took over multiple cities using just panzers.