Getting The Pyramids and GL on emperor

[Paulk]

O wow didnt realiza the major nerf on cossacks. Only have the 50% bonus vs other mounted. They are definately not overpowered. That really hurts Peter late game. I'm suprised they havent weakened redcoats though. They are still amazing. Makes me wonder how many of the programers are british?

 

[Paulk]

Question: How much does the AI prioritze the Great Wall on Emperor? (Compared to other wonders).

I think this is the second wonder the AI build, just after Stonehenge. In most games I've played its built between 500BC and 1300BC. It depends if any of the AI have stone. I also often see the AI build the Great Wall and use the Great Engineer they get to rush the Pyramids. (just like in this strategy)
Once Stonehenge is built you better be near completed the Great Wall cause you will only have about 10 turns to complete. (depending on your opponents)

 

[Martinus]

O wow didnt realiza the major nerf on cossacks. Only have the 50% bonus vs other mounted. They are definately not overpowered. That really hurts Peter late game. I'm suprised they havent weakened redcoats though. They are still amazing. Makes me wonder how many of the programers are british?

Still, Peter has one of the best UBs in game, that goes very well with his trait combo which favours SE.

 

[Paulk]

It's good but it comes so late that really hurts its value, but it is great if your going for the space race... Russia winning a space race? That'll never happen.

 

[PMabey]

After many attempts i finally have got this to work on emperor. the great wall isnt difficult to get if you have decent production and start it quite early. the stumbling block is getting the great engineer before the pyramids are built, but it is not impossible.

My main problem has been getting boxed in with only 3 or 4 cities and so have to take out one of my neighbours. That is why i favour Alexander fot this strategy; he's aggressive and has a decent uu. The odeons arent bad either.

I got a domination victory just as all the other civs were discovering democracy and using the emancipation civic. This is VERY annoying. You cannot adopt it because you need caste system to run the necessary specilaists. Subsequently your cities have serious happiness problems. Also at this time running a CE would really start to take effect with printing press and free speech, so your research advantage will be cut.

 

[suspendinlight]

Yes, this is a good strategy. The AI does not seem to prioritize the GW that much (and also, I have to say the effect of the GW is quite useful on raging barbs). I did a similar thing before reading this with Alexander on Monarch. I had GW, Pyramids, and HG in Athens and I built the GL in my science city. I'm about to get a forge too so I should have the +18 GE points per turn going.

 

[dragomaster]

you only get 1 gp piont for GW in warlords 2.08 epic speed

 

[Orion071]

you only get 1 gp piont for GW in warlords 2.08 epic speed

Yeah, that was a change that was made for 2.08. It seems that even a Philosophical leader now won't get the Great Engineer in time to rush the Pyramids, especially on Emperor. I was just about to try this too...

 

[playshogi]

I've been able to build p'mids (on emperor), without stone, without philosophical and without industrious and with raging barbs! After building great wall the key is to build a library and add some scientists to boost GP points. You'll still be a strong favorite to get an engineer. The AI seems to build the pyramids later, in 2.08.

 

[morchuflex]

After building great wall the key is to build a library and add some scientists to boost GP points. You'll still be a strong favorite to get an engineer.

Not quite. The more the scientists contribute to the GP emergence, the less likely it will be to be an engineer. For instance, if your scientists contribute 70 of the 100 required gpp, your chances of getting a GE fall down to 30%. In fact, the sooner you get a GP, the worse the odds.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

For instance, if your scientists contribute 70 of the 100 required gpp, your chances of getting a GE fall down to 30%.

No, that isn't how it works.

 

[morchuflex]

Sorry, but I simply can't decypher (that's inability, not laziness) the math in the article you pointed me to. Furthermore, it seems to contain contradicting opinions and no obvious conclusions. Care to sum it up?

 

[malekithe]

Care to sum it up?

All that matters in determining the type of GP produced is the quantity of sources of that type, not the magnitude of those sources.

eg. 30 turns at 1 GE point per turn from the Great Wall followed by 10 turns with the same 1 GE point plus an additional 6 GS points from 2 scientists will yield 100 total GPP with the following odds:

GE: 40/60
GS: 20/60

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

All that matters in determining the type of GP produced is the quantity of sources of that type, not the magnitude of those sources.

eg. 30 turns at 1 GE point per turn followed by 10 turns at 1 GE and 6 GS points per turn will yield 100 total GPP with the following odds:

GE: 40/60
GS: 20/60

No. yes - I had failed to recognize what was being written in this example. I might have had a better shot at it had I realized that the 1 GE point would be something like the Great Wall, rather than Ironworks. My bad; I still think my example below is clearer *pout*

Correct: If you have the pyramids (+2 GE points) and two hired scientists (+3 GS points each), then the pyramids are contributing 25% of the points, but you'll have a 33% chance of landing a GE (because one third of your sources is an engineer source).

This is why you get more Great Artists from your GP farm than you would like in a non cultural game: even though the National Epic is only contributing one point per turn, it contaminates the pool just as strongly as hiring an artist does.

It may not always have been that way, but that's the current state of affairs in Warlords 2.08 and Vanilla 1.61

 

[malekithe]

Correct: If you have the pyramids (+2 GE points) and two hired scientists (+3 GS points each), then the pyramids are contributing 25% of the points, but you'll have a 33% chance of landing a GE (because one third of your sources is an engineer source).

Huh? That's exactly what I said.

Maybe it'd be better if I put my results as a percentage instead?

GE: 66.67%
GS: 33.33%

Note this differs from the total gpp contribution (given below):

GE: 40%
GS: 60%

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Huh? That's exactly what I said.

Maybe it'd be better if I put my results as a percentage instead?

No, but it would have been clearer if you had been specific that you were looking at one source of GE points, but two sources of GS points. I missed the switch from apples to oranges.

 

[malekithe]

No, but it would have been clearer if you had been specific that you were looking at one source of GE points, but two sources of GS points. I missed the switch from apples to oranges.

Ah, you mean you couldn't read my mind?

 

[morchuflex]

If you have the pyramids (+2 GE points) and two hired scientists (+3 GS points each), then the pyramids are contributing 25% of the points, but you'll have a 33% chance of landing a GE (because one third of your sources is an engineer source).

This is why you get more Great Artists from your GP farm than you would like in a non cultural game: even though the National Epic is only contributing one point per turn, it contaminates the pool just as strongly as hiring an artist does.

It may not always have been that way, but that's the current state of affairs in Warlords 2.08 and Vanilla 1.61

Well, thanks to you - and Malekithe - for clarifying things.