Godking

[Naokaukodem]

As we are about religion, I find it very hard or suboptimal to have one in Deity difficulty mode. It's too bad, because religion and faith bring more depth to the game IMO. So what I would like is a religion for everyone. Not sure how to make it possible as I would like also be able to choose the same pantheon/religious abilities as another religion.

As to the Godking card, I use it 100% of the time. But... I'm not sure if you keep your pantheon if another religion "conquers" your cities, so maybe I shouldn't even care ?

 

[pokiehl]

As we are about religion, I find it very hard or suboptimal to have one in Deity difficulty mode. It's too bad, because religion and faith bring more depth to the game IMO. So what I would like is a religion for everyone. Not sure how to make it possible as I would like also be able to choose the same pantheon/religious abilities as another religion.

As to the Godking card, I use it 100% of the time. But... I'm not sure if you keep your pantheon if another religion "conquers" your cities, so maybe I shouldn't even care ?

Only way to make religion for everyone is to add more beliefs. My mod Religion Expanded does that and allows all players to have religions.

Also, you always keep your pantheon no matter what, even if all your cities are converted to someone else's religion. Pantheons are tied to the player, not the religion.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Now that's very nice. Thanks for the info ! (and all the good work) If there's a mod I would try, it's this one. (eventhough I don't like mods too much as a vanilla player, well mostly )

Yeah I suspected that as I think I remember a game where I took the camps bonus pantheon and still got it after religion spread. I think that wasn't the case for Civ5 ?

 

[pokiehl]

Yeah I suspected that as I think I remember a game where I took the camps bonus pantheon and still got it after religion spread. I think that wasn't the case for Civ5 ?

That’s right, in Civ 5 the pantheon was tied to the religion so converted cities followed the pantheon of the majority religion.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

As we are about religion, I find it very hard or suboptimal to have one in Deity difficulty mode.

I wouldnt say that, I usually play around religion on Deity (occasionally Deity++), and as long as you have a good reason to get one (with work ethic and/or a need for a rush involving Crusade), it usually pays off pretty well.
You have to open up accordingly though, which means going hard on just one or two settlers, then holy sites and being prepared to run holy site prayers if the GPP are contested.

 

[Naokaukodem]

I wouldnt say that, I usually play around religion on Deity (occasionally Deity++), and as long as you have a good reason to get one (with work ethic and/or a need for a rush involving Crusade), it usually pays off pretty well.
You have to open up accordingly though, which means going hard on just one or two settlers, then holy sites and being prepared to run holy site prayers if the GPP are contested.

Well it makes you concentrate on holy sites on your first 1-3 cities, instead of campuses, and for the Crusade you need Apostles which makes it even more longer to reach. (but I guess if you have several HS the faith must come on its own)
And considering I lag behind in science in Deity, but in a dramatic way (last save I checked I had less than 20 science per turn when the only known AI had around 80 and was second), I certainly cannot waste such time to have a religion.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Well it makes you concentrate on holy sites on your first 1-3 cities, instead of campuses, and for the Crusade you need Apostles which makes it even more longer to reach. (but I guess if you have several HS the faith must come on its own)
And considering I lag behind in science in Deity, but in a dramatic way (last save I checked I had less than 20 science per turn when the only known AI had around 80 and was second), I certainly cannot waste such time to have a religion.

You do not need those early campuses, because Crusade acts like a faster early tech gain, as the +10 combat strength you gain is around a tech level worth of strength. That power spike from Crusade hits earlier than the combat strength you would gain from tech, and therefore allows you to execute a rush that is faster and more consistent than an attack involving higher tech units.

For instance you can rush warriors with Archers and a battering ram, and hit around the early Classical era. These warriors are 30 combat strength, only slightly behind swordsmen and costing less than half to build. But the really nice thing here is that while your swordsman tech is slightly delayed, once you get that tech they are now 45 combat strength, aka Men at Arms level. This is what I mean when I say that Crusade is essentially a faster early tech gain, and this makes religion play so strong when done right.
Now add in work ethic as well, and you can pump out 30 CS warriors every few turns, and simply outproduce the Deity AI with cheap swarmy units.
And no, you dont need an apostle for this, as you can choose Crusade (and work ethic at the same time) as your first (two) belief(s).

I play around this a lot of the time myself, because of how both strong and consistent it is.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Also, that +1 prod isn't much, but still, time is of the essence in the beginning of the game.

It is actually quite a lot. For your capital at the time of unlocking this policy, you will typically have around 4-7 production, which with Urban Planning translates to an increase of 15-20% in production. For your settled cities this increases even more. Typically a freshly settled city in the early game has 1-3 production, which translates to an increase by 33-100% production. Now compare this to for instance the builder card, that adds 30% to builders (and only builders!) and you start to see how strong this card is early on. And this card scales with the number of cities as well, and takes surprisingly long to stop being relevant in terms of % production increase. It is a card that you should typically run for a long time in terms of how strong it is, typically well into the Classical era if there are no other cards that you are forced to run.
Easily the best early card, except for the fact that it doesnt help you secure a Pantheon (which is sometimes even more important).

 

[Horizons]

Lol, at least there is debate about G-d king versus city planning.

What about discipline vs survey? I struggle to ever find a use case for double experience for scouts in the early game, versus the usefulness of combat bonus against the ridiculous whack-a-mole barbs with their mysteriously advanced technology (as an aside, why are barbarians generally technologically superior in Civ6?)

 

[Naokaukodem]

And no, you dont need an apostle for this, as you can choose Crusade (and work ethic at the same time) as your first (two) belief(s).

Wait, isn't Crusade supposed to work only in foreign cities converted by religion owner ?

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Wait, isn't Crusade supposed to work only in foreign cities converted by religion owner ?

Yes, but its much easier to spread the religion with a missionary as the price is about a third, something you can easily afford once you found the religion. Either you spread before declaring war, or by bringing melee units on top of the missionary to spread while at war. If you need more missionaries later, just pillage a camp or plantation or so, and you have enough faith to afford as much missionaries as you could ever need. That +10 combat strength is absolutely nuts for how early it hits, and the AI is quite incapable of dealing with it if you just rush it, even on Deity.
Currently running it in a game on Deity++ difficulty (mod), and I've taken so many cities with it that I've already catched up to the AI (science and culture) in the Classical era. On Marathon speed that is, but still.

 

[kaspergm]

Lol, at least there is debate about G-d king versus city planning.

What about discipline vs survey? I struggle to ever find a use case for double experience for scouts in the early game, versus the usefulness of combat bonus against the ridiculous whack-a-mole barbs with their mysteriously advanced technology (as an aside, why are barbarians generally technologically superior in Civ6?)

I agree Discipline is the better card at least 4/5 times, but I have used Survey more than a few times. In some games, you simply luck out on not having any barb camps nearby, and getting a scout or two up to level 3 quickly can be useful - and in the rare situation where you manage to get one up to level 4 for that tasty Ambush promotion, it can be really great.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Yes, but its much easier to spread the religion with a missionary as the price is about a third, something you can easily afford once you found the religion. Either you spread before declaring war, or by bringing melee units on top of the missionary to spread while at war. If you need more missionaries later, just pillage a camp or plantation or so, and you have enough faith to afford as much missionaries as you could ever need. That +10 combat strength is absolutely nuts for how early it hits, and the AI is quite incapable of dealing with it if you just rush it, even on Deity.
Currently running it in a game on Deity++ difficulty (mod), and I've taken so many cities with it that I've already catched up to the AI (science and culture) in the Classical era. On Marathon speed that is, but still.

OK so you need your neighbours to not have a religion before you can come at their door... because if they have already a religion I doubt mere missionaries could convert any city, maybe only the 1/2/3 pop ones but that's it ?

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

I use Survey over Discipline early game 80% of the time. My typical build is 2 Scouts first (sometimes 3) - I play on very large maps and need to find huts, 2nd continent, CS, and esp Natural Wonders early to get early Golden Ages. Scouts block Barb Scouts better than Warriors, esp once the promotions start rolling in. You can attack a Barb Scout and get +8 experience, half-way to 1st promo. They won't attack back unless their camp has been destroyed.

Obviously I switch to Discipline if the Barbs are out of control. But typically my first switch will be to Agoge, as I likely have 2 cities, laid out Holy Sites, and need a small army fast. If I get all the timings right I get all Eurekas, and a HS built before heading for Political Philosophy. A hut will often pop a handy Eureka as well.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

As we are about religion, I find it very hard or suboptimal to have one in Deity difficulty mode. It's too bad, because religion and faith bring more depth to the game IMO. So what I would like is a religion for everyone. Not sure how to make it possible as I would like also be able to choose the same pantheon/religious abilities as another religion.

As to the Godking card, I use it 100% of the time. But... I'm not sure if you keep your pantheon if another religion "conquers" your cities, so maybe I shouldn't even care ?

I mean, Deity is supposed to be hard. You're not supposed to get everything you want. It's a shame that some play styles are blocked off but that's the tradeoff you make playing the difficulty.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

OK so you need your neighbours to not have a religion before you can come at their door... because if they have already a religion I doubt mere missionaries could convert any city, maybe only the 1/2/3 pop ones but that's it ?

One missionary is usually enough to convert their city even if they got a religion right before you. In some rare cases two.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

I mean, Deity is supposed to be hard. You're not supposed to get everything you want. It's a shame that some play styles are blocked off but that's the tradeoff you make playing the difficulty.

You can run a religion on Deity no problem. You might get limited in the number of available beliefs though, as the AI will almost always grab Choral Music and Feed the World before the player has any chance to do so. That leaves fewer desirable beliefs so its easy to default into the usual suspects (Work Ethic and Crusade especially).

 

[reddishrecue]

I usually use city planning over God king all the time but then again, I haven't been able to beat emperor difficulty. I just find that extra hammer per turn per city much more useful because with the god king there's responsibility where you have to build the shrine and commit to these types of rites. They might pay off in the long run but city planning is just so simple because you don't always end up with the religion by the end particularly in the later levels. The times I've played it, I've been missing something in my religion like I would have a great prophet and I wouldn't have the shrine to build the religion. Or.. I would have the pantheon and I would not have the rest of the religion to make it match.

 

[DeckerdJames]

One thing to consider is whether you want to unlock mysticism. Getting a pantheon immediately also boosts that civic. You might do it because you want a preserve with a grove in the capital for the extra food, culture, and faith because you have a large forest. You might want to put Reyna into the city with forestry management to generate some early income and a preserve would add even more value to it.

 

[canadamufc]

What about discipline vs survey? I struggle to ever find a use case for double experience for scouts in the early game, versus the usefulness of combat bonus against the ridiculous whack-a-mole barbs with their mysteriously advanced technology (as an aside, why are barbarians generally technologically superior in Civ6?)

Yeah, I always run Discipline over Survey unless I'm playing the Cree or Inca.