Greatest sportsperson of all time

[jeps]

yeah, you could even say that he brought it to the forefront of the american sports world. sure, the nhl was around long before his arrival in LA. but what it did imo was it opened up the possibility that the nhl could sustain teams in warm weather climates. this undoubtedly had a tremendous impact on the brand.

The thing to consider isn't just LA though. Sure, the LA Kings had been around for years, but so had the Golden Seals/Seals. Hockey was a small enough market to only support one team in California. However, after the advent of gretzky, hockey could now support three teams.

As well, look at the minor leagues/minor league involvement. They skyrocketed when Gretzky came to play.

Hockey Hall of Fame members from the US aren't numerous, but the places they come from say a lot - Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, New York, Pennsylvania, Texas.

Ignoring Kansas, as the member inducted came before any franchises in Kansas, and Minnesota where there is a canadian-style hockey culture, Missouri - St Louis Eagles/Blues. New York - Ranges/Americans. Pennsylvania - Pirates/Quakers.

The Texan, Brian Leetch, started to play hockey in New England, at a prep school.

The fact is that interest in hockey in the states is not a given, and spurred by success or a big name player, which drives minor league hockey, which creates more major league success, and the cycle repeats.

Gretzky did that in the biggest extent that has ever been seen. Within a year, people already felt the changes (he tells of an anecdote, how upon his arrival he mentioned that it was weird that nobody was playing roller hockey in the summer, but within a year, tennis courts and basketball courts had signs up saying "NO ROLLER HOCKEY"). To me, that's huge.

 

[MCdread]

I vote for Eddy Merckx.
Holds almost every record there is: Grand Tours, classics, the Monuments, world championships, etc. 3 week races, 1 week races, 1 day races. Won all jerseys of the Tour in a single year. His hour record stood for almost 30 years. But maybe the most incredible statistics is that he won about 1/3 of all the races he entered (including final classifications and intermediate stages of Grand Tours and stage races, everything that had a finish line).
There's no other cyclist that has ever even dreamt of coming close to such level of dominance in the sport.

 

[JohnRM]

Best athlete overall, Jim Thorpe (by far)

Best athlete at his primary sport, Michael Jordan (by far)

 

[Lambert Simnel]

Best athlete overall, Jim Thorpe (by far)

Best athlete at his primary sport, Michael Jordan (by far)

Hmm. Maybe it's because I'm not an American, but I struggle to understand the "by far" part of each claim there.

Thorpe was an outstanding athlete, and that was presumably a big factor in his college football record. But there are others who have been outstanding decathletes. I didn't think he did much at professional football, and was largely anonymous at baseball. As an outsider, I'm almost tempted to suggest the reverence in which he is held in the US is partly influenced by a guilt trip for the treatment of Native Americans.

As to Jordan, I don't think anyone is likely to seriously quibble with him being the best basketball player ever. But I think you need to make the case for him excelling at his sport by greater degree than Merckx, Ruth or Bradman. Maybe you can - want to have a stab at it ?

 

[Azale]

MJ is not the greatest basketball player of all time BY FAR. There are serious claims to #1 from Russell, Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, and maybe even Kobe by the end of his career.

 

[Camikaze]

If any serious judgement is to be made, we need to know what metric we are going by. The three I can think of are relative prowess in a field, all-round ability, and athletic ability. All three have very different answers. When I suggested Bradman, I was assuming the first metric (and I'm yet to be convinced that he shouldn't win based on that), but he certainly wouldn't win based on the other two (hell, he wouldn't even win if you were just counting cricketers).

 

[GoodGame]

Jim Thorpe, in terms of raw versatility.

This.


Though I enjoy Jim Brown's commentary in the UFC videos.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Has to be Thorpe. Decathalon champion, track star, football hall of famer, played major league baseball for several years. One of his teammates, a baseball hall of fame center fielder, couldn't believe how much faster Thorpe was than he was.

IMHO, we shouldn't consider "greatest athlete" to be one who dominated only one sport. Ruth for baseball, Gretsky for hockey, etc. They were the greatest at the one sport they played. Just an opinion.

 

[Arriaga II]

Also if we're including marketability/name recognition as a metric then the first would be Pelé, second would be Muhammad Ali and third would be Michael Jordan. In my opinion.

 

[Gigaz]

How about this guy?

Charles Burgess Fry

 

[Lambert Simnel]

Has to be Thorpe. Decathalon champion, track star, football hall of famer, played major league baseball for several years..

I can't seem to find any stats on his pro football career - I'm open to being convinced, but I suspect that the Hall of Fame inducted a legend, not a player.

His MLB stats look pretty meh, at this distance. And I don't think it can be explained as being in the dead ball era, can it ? I though that preceded him ?

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

what is the "dead ball" era ?

 

[El Justo]

it was pre-1930 or thereabouts. probably pre-babe ruth. so pre 1920s. it was called 'dead ball' because offense was low and pitching had the edge. low, low hr totals too. big parks, high mounds, and probably a crappy ball all lead to this imo.

 

[Arriaga II]

Prior to 1919, the MLB single season record for home runs was 25. Only 3 or 4 players had ever even reached the mark of 20 before.

If we're talking about a single person revolutionizing a sport, then Babe Ruth would win that award.

1919 - Babe Ruth set an MLB record with 29 home runs. 2nd place player hit 12.
1920 - Babe Ruth set an MLB record with 54 home runs. 2nd place player hit 19.
1921 - Babe Ruth set an MLB record with 59 home runs. 2nd place player hit 24.

1922 is what I would consider the first year of the post-dead ball era. Rogers Hornsby led the league with 42 home runs and Ruth only finished 4th with 35. Ruth had some troubles that year with his weight and the law.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

it was pre-1930 or thereabouts. probably pre-babe ruth. so pre 1920s. it was called 'dead ball' because offense was low and pitching had the edge. low, low hr totals too. big parks, high mounds, and probably a crappy ball all lead to this imo.

How do "high mounds" make it harder to score ? Do you mean the pitchers mound ? I don`t know alot about baseball but really enjoy watching it

 

[King of Town]

I think Babe Ruth came along and played the game differently. Ty Cobb came out in like a 5 game stretch when they played the yankees and had like 4 hr's, 3 triples and 3 doubles just to prove he could do it like Ruth. The game was about getting high averages back then.

Jim Thorpe for all around awesomeness.

Bo Jackson haha I'm not even sure he was the best baseball/football guy of his time.

 

[Grisu]

half the names don't say anything to me because I don't follow these sports...from the rest:

For me it was a tie between Jordan, Gretzky and Federer...since the first two already have votes, I took the homer vote

 

[El Justo]

Dave Winfield: according to wikipedia and a 2004 espn poll, he was ranked no3 best athlete of all time. played baseball and basketball at the collegiate level (univ of minnesota i think). only man to be drafted in 3 sports iirc. drafted by nba atlanta hawks and an aba team and was also drafted by the minnesota vikings despite not having played football in college. and of course, he made his mark in MLB. he was so fun to watch and was certainly one of my favorite players of all time. a class act too.

tony gwynn: one of the all time best hitters in mlb history. second imho to ted williams as far as pure hitters go and the 'science' of hitting. drafted by the san diego clippers of the nba too. played PG iirc.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

Dave Winfield: according to wikipedia and a 2004 espn poll, he was ranked no3 best athlete of all time. played baseball and basketball at the collegiate level (univ of minnesota i think). only man to be drafted in 3 sports iirc. drafted by nba atlanta hawks and an aba team and was also drafted by the minnesota vikings despite not having played football in college. and of course, he made his mark in MLB. he was so fun to watch and was certainly one of my favorite players of all time. a class act too.

tony gwynn: one of the all time best hitters in mlb history. second imho to ted williams as far as pure hitters go and the 'science' of hitting. drafted by the san diego clippers of the nba too. played PG iirc.

Winfield ? Gwynn ? I mean, good, good ball players, but they really aren't worthy of consideration here. "3rd best athlete of all time" - the boldly part rather makes me think it was an American poll, and (although I do love the place) it's not a nation renown for its ability to look outwards in these sort of matters...

 

[Lambert Simnel]

I think Babe Ruth came along and played the game differently. Ty Cobb came out in like a 5 game stretch when they played the yankees and had like 4 hr's, 3 triples and 3 doubles just to prove he could do it like Ruth. The game was about getting high averages back then.

Interesting, but doesn't ring right to me. If you can hit regular home runs, the difference to your team is much more than increasing your BA by 30 points or so. If he could have managed 4 HRs, 3 triples and 3 doubles in every 5 games streak when he wanted to, then he would have done so. And then people wouldn't talk about Ruth as the best baseball player ever.

Cobb's stats and record are amazing, but Ruth's are more than amazing - and if you're that concerned about hitting for average, then Ruth's best season BA as a Yankee is higher than anything DiMaggio accomplished... (or any other Yankee)