HELP! I keep getting my ass handed to me!

[thevinn]

Game settings:
Civ: Aztecs,
Map: Pangaea
Size: Small
Difficulty: King
Speed: Standard
Mods: Thal's Balance Mod (v9.17beta), Diplomacy (v24)
AI Civs: Germany, Greece, France
Advanced Settings: No ancient ruins, Disable save policy/promotion ban

I produce a scout, and use my jaguar and scout to discover the city states and other civs so I can trade my available silk and gems. But it seems like no matter what I do, Alexander declares war on me between turns 75 and 80 and I get raped in the ass with a splintery two by four.

I've spent 16 hours in a row playing yesterday, using the same map, saving at well defined points, going back to earlier saved turns when I make mistakes and trying different things, and I have also deleted all my saves and started over from the same map to use a different strategy, about five times. Nothing works!

I even have the advantage of cheating by reloading / restarting from the same map, since I know where everything is and I can perfectly scout the map in the least number of turns, and I know where the best expansion spot is (the iron is still unreachable).

I use Food focus, and when a citizen is 1 turn away from being produced, I manually adjust citizen control to maximize production hammers while still making a citizen in 1 turn. I do that religiously.

This is what I've tried:

- Going down Freedom
- Going down Liberty
- Expanding to a second city
- Not expanding
- Making nearby Venice an ally (Venice never sent troops when Greece declared war, even though Venice was right next to me and had Ally status)
- Focusing exclusively on producing units
- Abusing the barbarians to get a Scout with Medic upgrade, and get XP for my Jags

I have zero iron nearby, even for my expansion.

These are some of the starts that I've used
- Scout, Jaguar, Jaguar, Worker, Archer
- Scout, Worker, Jaguar, Jaguar, Archer
etc...

I am not good at building up my army, Greece usually has 3 or 4 hoplites, a couple of archers, and a swordsman or two when he declares war on me, and I have about 5 units at best, some jaguars, an upgraded scout, and a garrisoned archer, maybe a spearman.

Is it possible that some start positions / AI civs / difficulty settings are just unwinnable?

What's my malfunction?

I am about to start a new game using the same map and settings, and try the Honor tree and fielding a large army using either 1 city or 2, and less emphasis on wonders. Its the only thing I haven't done yet.

 

[Sneaks]

Have you tried buying Alexander into a war with someone else? It will also be incredibly hard for many people to give you solid advice given the fact you're using mods that change the game so significantly.

 

[thevinn]

Have you tried buying Alexander into a war with someone else? It will also be incredibly hard for many people to give you solid advice given the fact you're using mods that change the game so significantly.

You can buy a war dec? I'm new to the game...still learning! So I should save my gold and ask him to declare war on someone else. Can I do that after he declares war on me or do I do it before? How much does it cost? Will he also expect luxury goods?

If I was playing without "cheating" (saving and reloading) how would I do that in a real game? I wouldn't know that he was going to war dec me so I wouldn't know to buy him off. Or should I assume that since he's my neighbor and his personality is warlike, that he will eventually war dec me?

I don't think the mods are relevant, I'm looking for general strategic advice. It seems that if I go with a 1-city initial build, then I have to focus production on military units and I can't get wonders and buildings and stuff. Also, is food focus the right choice in the beginning?

I could also use some general advice. Is "worker first" always good? Or should I go "Scout->Worker"? What are the right openers? Should I build a monument first? What if I build a monument, but then adopt Tradition->Legalism, do I get 4 more monuments or is 1 "wasted" since I built it already.

 

[Cheeseisgood]

It's pretty much just trading with him and proposing that he go to war with someone, in return for money. You can propose he goes to war with someone and ask what he wants for this, he may name a price. If he says that you have nothing to trade for that, try offering some stuff anyway as occasionally this is the AI saying "We don't think you'd want to offer up something like luxuary goods for this" rather than saying "You're too poor."

If that fails, try buy someone into going to war with him. If you have a particularly warmongering neighbor such as the Germans or Aztecs nearby, you can try bribing them to war with him.

Do this as soon as you meet him and become "Friendly" if possible.

This is all assuming you're playing the unmodded game. I assume it should be the same with the mods you have on.

 

[WeaselSlapper]

I use Food focus, and when a citizen is 1 turn away from being produced, I manually adjust citizen control to maximize production hammers while still making a citizen in 1 turn. I do that religiously.

Just so you know extra food when you grow overflows so doing this makes getting your next citizen come slower after growth. You're better off locking your good tiles then switching to production focus when you want to hammer something out.

For build orders (on Pangea with Alex as a neighbor) I'll go scout, warrior, warrior, , archer, warrior, archer, scout (if there's still a lot I need to uncover). You need to be ready for DOW and soon so normally I don't build any building and you can forget about trying for a wonder. On higher difficulties you normally can't get early wonders anyway.

 

[thevinn]

Just so you know extra food when you grow overflows

Wait no...from what I read in the forum, extra food does NOT overflow unless you have certain buildings (for example, the 40% food retained after growth modifier). Therefore, when you are 1 turn away from producing a citizen, the best strategy is to adjust worked tiles so you have the minimum amount of food necessary to get a citizen in the next turn, while maximizing hammers. This is from another post in the forum...unless the rules changed?

For build orders (on Pangea with Alex as a neighbor) I'll go scout, warrior, warrior, , archer, warrior, archer, scout (if there's still a lot I need to uncover). You need to be ready for DOW and soon so normally I don't build any building and you can forget about trying for a wonder. On higher difficulties you normally can't get early wonders anyway.

Where's the worker? When do you settle a new city? Do you work the barbarians to get xp? What's the priority balance between exploration and fighting barbs?

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

Where's the worker? When do you settle a new city? Do you work the barbarians to get xp? What's the priority balance between exploration and fighting barbs?

I usually buy and steal the first two workers unless I get a start where I can build one pretty fast before cash is accumulated. First settler most of the time is the one from collective rule, so if were lucky (1-2 culture ruins), I'm looking around turn 20-30.

Aoxo

 

[chgrogers]

Wait no...from what I read in the forum, extra food does NOT overflow unless you have certain buildings (for example, the 40% food retained after growth modifier). Therefore, when you are 1 turn away from producing a citizen, the best strategy is to adjust worked tiles so you have the minimum amount of food necessary to get a citizen in the next turn, while maximizing hammers. This is from another post in the forum...unless the rules changed?

Yes and no Thevinn

What he is talking about is the extra food past what you need to get a new citizen is put into the pool for the next level.

Aqueduct takes 40% of the food used in getting the next citizen and adds it to the next citizen level. Meaning you need less food each level to grow.

 

[WeaselSlapper]

Where's the worker? When do you settle a new city? Do you work the barbarians to get xp? What's the priority balance between exploration and fighting barbs?

Sometime I'll build a worker somewhere in there if I can't grab one from a nearby barb camp. Usually I buy a settler and will use my second city to hammer out a worker or two. My scout is all explore (my goal is to gain 0 XP with him) you loose too many turns of explore for XP gains.

I kill barbs only with my military and not for XP. I hunt down close barb camps so they don't pester my workers and for cash/city state influence.

 

[thevinn]

Yes and no Thevinn

What he is talking about is the extra food past what you need to get a new citizen is put into the pool for the next level.

Aqueduct takes 40% of the food used in getting the next citizen and adds it to the next citizen level. Meaning you need less food each level to grow.

Oh...well that changes everything. How does this reconcile with the information in this article:

Magical Hammers & Between Turn Ordering (forums.civfanatics.com)

 

[mujrim]

In my games, whenever I get Alexander, he expands like crazy and starts wars. I always make it a priority to pump out units and invade him early if he's near me.

 

[thevinn]

whenever I get Alexander, he expands like crazy and starts wars. I always make it a priority to pump out units and invade him early if he's near me.

I see. I didn't realize that the civ personalities had such an effect on behavior. This game is really cool! He was right next to me by the way.

 

[RedRover57]

Playing Aztecs on a small pangaea map against those aggressive civs, there really is only one strategy. I wouldn't bother with a scout on a small map. Build order would be jaguar - monument - worker - jaguars (buy an additional jag or 2 to start killing barbs). Build/buy jaguars until you have 8-12. Conquer your nearest neighbor. Stay at one city and research to IW. Build a settler to coincide with IW and settle on a 6 iron tile. Upgrade your jaguars to swords and conquer the next civ. Beeline to Steel. Upgrade your jaguars to LS and conquer the last civ. Go Honor tree all the way.

On King you could easily get the GL - Philo - NC, but this will delay your first rush and you will have to wait until swords.

 

[thevinn]

Wow! Please explain the abbreviations...

 

[RedRover57]

Wow! Please explain the abbreviations...

Sorry..

IW = Ironworking
LS = Longsword
GL = Great Library
NC = National College

On a small map I wouldn't bother with the GL to NC sling since it won't matter much. You may even be able to take out your final 2 civs with just swords if you are fast enough, so tech rate won't be that important. Jaguars are so expendable that even if you lose a couple you can replace them fast.

 

[chgrogers]

Oh...well that changes everything. How does this reconcile with the information in this article:

Magical Hammers & Between Turn Ordering (forums.civfanatics.com)

I read the article. Basically what it is saying is that food is calculated before growth of a city so when the City grow you are forcing the governor to select a non-food tile to work instead of the normal Food tiles. Then Production and Gold are calculated this results in addition to production or gold that you would not normally get due to the governor choosing a food only tile in the default focus.

I would consider it more of a higher level trick to help you make those turn marks, players are required to make to beat immortal and deity. On King I doubt it would make or break you.