Hippus+ Brainstorming

[esvath]

As Hippus is the mercenary, how about making all other civs negate diplo bonus/penalties? So other civs attitude to Hippus always 0 (thus Cautious)? And this will enable the Hippus to go for the highest bidder, without suffering diplo penalties for war-ally, declaring war etc?

I don't know how to do this, though. Probably involving some DLL work

 

[Brokenbone]

What if you give the Hippus a unique Resource "Mercenary Contract" which enables the one buying to build mercs. The only Problem would be to get the AI to understand what's going on so they would pay a reasonable price.

Ooooh. Interesting idea, either a strategic resource (which alone permits the building of a unit type) or something a little less than that (which maybe gives you a % discount on building certain units or buildings, like how Scions build cheaper units with access to luxuries or artifacts and whatnot). The palace could spawn one such resource, and some kind of mercenary camp building/wonder/whatever could produce more later in the game. Still would need balance on the other side though, a detriment, like possibly diplo modifiers for owning that resource (an equivalent to "You use Death mana!" except more like "You're Mercenary Scum!"), which could extend to whoever traded to obtain it too, negative happy faces for having the resource, the resource causing "mutations" like Chaos mana does, except the mutation is always something negative from a short list of mercenary-themed promotions, which could include that Scion Centeni "unreadiness" promotion (may have name wrong) with a Bonus Pay spell to temporarily cure it, something like a renamed "Crazed" designed simply to send them off enraged on the hunt for easy prey, something like "Estrangement" or whatever Jotnar trolls suffer from that causes them to go barb for good after awhile, etc.

Anyhow, yeah, resources are typically something the AI does seek in trades or tributes, so maybe this would be a somewhat understood thing to see traded. Just like only the Kurios can have fine clothes and jewelery with the appropriate resources and buildings, maybe the Hippus being so focussed on military related trading could somehow be reflected in trading their know-how, since actual unit trading/gifting seems like too big a project. As long as there's a downside too though (high hammer national wonder? sacrifice a great commander to make a "Hippus Command Post which generates the special resource? negative promos hitting their empire for embracing a mercenary philosophy), as again, the Hippus are pretty darn strong as is.

 

[Wichtel]

I think it should double/triple the "You traded with our worst enemy" diplomacy penalty and if you think one special resource is too powerful, take a palace mana away. But I think the problem is more on the receiving end, this would be a way to really help someone in a war, its like giving someone in a medieval war in vanilla iron. And we should think about what happens to the merc units when you stop trading the contract.

 

[Calavente]

that and the fact that the hippus already have only two manas. removing one more would be a bit too much...

 

[Sephi]

I think it feels a bit strange to make a civilization of mercenaries actually have the special ability to hire mercenaries- when in fact they are supposed to be the mercenaries themselves.

It would probably be better to attempt to reflect their sellsword nature in gameplay somehow, such as allowing them to join into ongoing wars between factions with very few, if any, diplomatic penalties and actually making other leaders pay them to fight on their side.

In addition, if the Hippus had joined into a war between other factions, supporting one side it would probably be interesting if they were paid for the units they killed, with substantial bounties paid for capturing cities, and that those cities they took over while flying the banner of the other faction was handed over to their employer.

In gameplay this means that the Hippus would be sticking their grubby little fingers into every little war imaginable and earn gold and experience as they undermine the war-effort of their employer's enemy, all whilst suffering very little diplomatic penalties and not being subject to whatever applicable sansaction there might be from other factions.

I believe that would be a much more interesting and flavourful approach than simply mercenaries hiring mercenaries. Everyone hires mercenaries- whereas mercenaries are unique because they sell themselves.

yes, I fully agree with this and the Hippus+ Module will be very similar to this. From the new Hippus Concept section:

Hippus - Horselords[\H1][PARAGRAPH:1]
All Mounted Units of the Hippus are stronger thanks to the Horselords Promotion. Their Hero Magnadine appears in the lategame and can recruit one mercenary unit a turn. With a stable present in a city the Hippus can equip melee, recon and disciple with Warhorses, which increase their mobility and allow them to keep up with the Hippus army.

Mercenaries[\H2]
Once Trade is discovered the Hippus may enlist their Soldiers as mercenaries. As mercenaries they are fully controlled by the AI and their behavior depends on which specialisation is given to them when they are enlisted. Tip: Raiding Mercenaries enlisted in the same city will form groups of up to 10 units so carefully enlist units to make those raiding groups deadly.

Mercenary Warfare[\H2]
Whenever a War is declared the Hippus can choose to support the weaker side with their mercenaries. For this the Hippus do not have to openly declare war, the Mercenaries will do warfare on their own. Everytime they pillage, kill or liberate a city the Hippus player gets some gold.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

sounds great, awesome to see a Hippus+ module in development! one thing I'd add is Warhorses for Arcane units as well, otherwise their mages will be the only ones having trouble keeping up with the rest of the army

 

[Sephi]

sounds great, awesome to see a Hippus+ module in development! one thing I'd add is Warhorses for Arcane units as well, otherwise their mages will be the only ones having trouble keeping up with the rest of the army

are there any art files for mounted human arcane units?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Avahz's module has Storm riders who are definitely mounted mages, so yes. he also has a couple nice ideas which would fit perfectly in with Hippus+ imho. guaranteed access to mounted mercs for example, me likey. it hurts bad when someone snags the guild of the nine otherwise.

 

[tesb]

Avahz's module has Storm riders who are definitely mounted mages

Merging the models is rather easy, but do they have a mage ranged animation? Afaik there currently are only animation patterns for mounted melee and mounted archers, so unless he made custom animations they may look a bit off in combat.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

dunno, but who doesn't use quick combat anyway? I mean you sure got better stuff to do than watching 200 units figthing it off individually, since ANYTHING is better than that

 

[Brokenbone]

Earlier in the thread, Esvath mentioned his fantasy units including what is billed as a Hippus Mounted Mage, I've seen screenshots but never seen it in "action."

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13844

***

Anyhow, Sephi's comments on how the new Hippus+ will look sounds interesting.

I assume Warhorses cost $$, along the lines of equipment.

As to Mercenaries, it will be interesting to see if the benefits balance against the fact that your units (whether fresh or "nurtured") have to be donated to AI control. I have visions of a stack of "something like Enraged" Hippus Horse Archers being chased around by a normal, player controlled Hippus stack of buffers / healers. Mages trying to catch up with a crazy stack in order to Regenerate them, Blur them, Windwall them, whatever (using a variety of tesb's "combo" spells will come in useful here, for the rare chances you can "catch" your mercenaries), or priests chasing them to cure disease, heal, whatever. I guess there will be something special about these units that makes them somehow "always hostile" to whoever is their current enemy, almost like hidden nationality, but maybe ONLY to a war target. Will be neat to see in play, looking forward to it.

 

[Sephi]

wow, those units look great

yes, the mercenaries will be only hostile to their war target. It's not done via promotion, they form a minor civ and are visible easy to distinguish. Also means you do not have to pay support costs for them, they get their gold by looting, raiding, whatever.

 

[Elwist]

You said at the beginning that you wanted them to focus on money rather than science and while it would require a lot of work that made me think that it might be interesting to give them the inability to gain science in the normal way just as the fallow civilization's can't gain population through food. There would of course have to be an alternate method which was balanced, but it would certainly make them feel different.

 

[Neomega]

Mercenary Warfare[\H2]
Whenever a War is declared the Hippus can choose to support the weaker side with their mercenaries. For this the Hippus do not have to openly declare war, the Mercenaries will do warfare on their own. Everytime they pillage, kill or liberate a city the Hippus player gets some gold.

or kill a unit?

 

[Neomega]

dunno, but who doesn't use quick combat anyway?

I dont use quick combat, and I rarely engage in stack wars.

 

[esvath]

My mounted adept (and mage and archmage) don't have combat animation but the idle animation involve conjuring fire, so I think they are sufficient

I like the mercenary concept but since it involve minor civ (which is unavailable in vanilla FfH) I can't steal it. Too bad I'll stick with mounted adept (+1 move, no free promo) for my Hippus flavor then

Go Hippus, go!

 

[Almagafor]

What about a spell or promotion for gold that allows you to mount/dismount your non cav units, with the cav units staying horselords. So your whole army is cav mobile, but the horsemen and such are better at it?

 

[Sephi]

or kill a unit?

yes, killing units also gives gold. And you can enlist units as body hunter mercenaries who are speciliazed at searching for easy to kill victims.

 

[Fafnir13]

Any way to get those raiding groups back?

Sounds interesting.They still aren't quite acting like mercenaries, since the "hiring" civ isn't actually playing them, but it's a lot closer then they are now.

Also, how with this interact with national units limits?

 

[seizer]

Sounds like a very interesting mechanic!

Any chance it could be expanded a bit and given to all civs? Having the AI handle the army micromanagement have been a dream of mine for a long time... I realize it would be quite a bit of work though. With the framework there it should be possible for me to do something like that on my own...