HMM1 - French Monarch Sucession Game

[zurichuk]

ok hi guys, holiday over and so i can give more attention to this SG than before, loads of progress made in the game in the last few days though , lots of reading/strategy to catch up on

Reddwarfian hasn't posted on these boards since Nov 7 when he said he was grounded, are you ungrounded yet? (bit like asking 'are you awake? but worth a try)

also i can't find a link to the last save or find it in the uploads5 folder, could somebody repost the link please?

but anyway it certainly looks like a superb situation we are in

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I'd say tight outside the cores and loose in the cores

Edit - Zurichuk, the save didn't work for you?

 

[zurichuk]

i must have my 'stupid hat' on, but i can't find the link or the save in the uploads folder

 

[Hmmmmm]

1) Sir Bugsy
2) Reddwarfian (Suspended until a post is made in this SG)
3) zurichuk (Up Next)
4) Frollo (On Deck)
5) Kaiser_Berger
6) handy900
7) Hmm

 

[Hmmmmm]

Sorry about the goto commands, I usually only use these if the guy is going to get there in my ten turns, I must of miss counted. Don't worry about automated workers though, I don't even do that for my own games.

Looks like a good set of turns Bugsy, we should be well on the way

 

[Sir Bugsy]

There weren't any automated workers, I was just making a general statement. The go-to commands don't bother me personally. Most of the time they are going to exactly where they should be going. Some people it bothers though. Same with build queues and science queues.

I was just making a general comment. If you played with some of the hard core SG players, you'd be in the dog house. With me you a team mate

 

[zurichuk]

ok this is my official GOT IT, will post results in 2-3 hours

 

[Reddwarfian]

Hmmm, I'm still grounded, and I'm dealing with my computer addiction, so please take me off the list. I'm out.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Originally posted by Reddwarfian
Hmmm, I'm still grounded, and I'm dealing with my computer addiction, so please take me off the list. I'm out.

Sorry to see you go Red

Someday when you are legal you can have these addictions and not get grounded, just chewed out by your wife.

 

[zurichuk]

OK pre-flight checks (for my benefit)

23 cities, nice. Polytheism in 2 turns@40%

13 workers, 5 warriors, 17 spearmen, 13 swordsmen, 6 horsemen, 1 catapult and 3 galleys

everyone is annoyed except the Indians who are furious

1339 culture@49/turn (from Bugsy's report)

We are technologically advanced.

------------------------------

Iroquois - 7 cities - no horses yet - 8 Gold - we are strong
Japan - 13 cities - no iron yet - 84 Gold - behind 3 techs - we are strong
India - 2 cities - no iron - 7 Gold - down 2 techs - 5 turns left on the peace treaty - we are strong
Persia - 14 cities - 21 Gold - down Construction - we are average

Everything hunky-dory

------------------------------

270AD (1)

Besancon - settler - settler
Dijon - library - worker
Bayonne founded NE of Jaipur as per dot map - temple
lots of worker actions
block indian settler pair with the swordsmen
tax cut to 30% - polytheism in 1
No diplomacy

IT

Immortals move through territory, galley also
Indian settler pair goes north towards Persian territory
We discover Polytheism, move to Monotheism for Cathedrals
We have entered a new age says our historians

280AD (2)

Nothing but worker actions and fine tuning
science rate to 50%, seems strange, not used to actually researching these days
No change diplomacy

IT

New Indian pair makes it into our territory
Immortals heading away

290AD (3)

madras - settler -settler
Chartres - library - settler
Kolhapur - library - temple
dijon - worker - marketplace
brest built west of chartres
suicide galley heads west
block new indian settler pair
no change - diplomacy

IT

Movement as before

300AD (4)

Paris - settler - horseman
Rheims - Marketplace - horseman - fire taxman
Tours - Barracks - horseman
Marseilles - Barracks - horseman
Galley moves further west - no contact
Bordeaux founded west of Madras
Indian settler pair is actually an archer and a spearman
whoa - AI's have been trading - Iroquios have parity, Persians are ahead Monotheism

IT

Indian pair keep moving - but where? must check for undefended cities, treaty is up
Movement from Japanese - getting nervous now

310AD (5)

Grenoble - Library - barracks
Our brave Galley sinks

320AD (6)

Delhi - Library - Settler
Rheims riots at size 9 - entertainer given
Avignon - Library - Marketplace
Rouen - Library - Spearman
Rennes built on island

IT
Persians almost out of territory
Indians are up to something (have 4 units outside their city)


330AD (7)

Madras - Settler - Library
Chartes - Settler - galley
Amiens - temple - library
trade WM's for some gold, Persians still up Monotheism- we have in 3

IT

Persians gone

340AD (8)

Paris - Horseman - Marketplace
Lyons - Horseman - horseman
Tours - Horseman - galley
Marseilles - horseman - library
2 more settlers landed on island


IT
oops pressed new turn instead of diplomacy, buttons are too close
Japanese reappear on border
Indians have 5 units on border


350AD (9)

Delhi - Settler - settler
Rheims - horseman - library
besancon - settler - library
Rouen expands
New Paris formed on the east coast
New Orleans formed on island
New Lyons formed on South Coast

IT
Monotheism discovered - feudalism next (this can be vetoed)
Japanese galley goes along coast


360AD (10)

Bombay - marketplace - library
Lyons - horseman - horseman


OK final situation, I've never expanded so fast in peace time before so they were strange turns, felt the trigger underneath my finger several times, learning alot from this game

Iroquois - 7 cities - 73 gold - down Monotheism - we are strong
India - 3 cities - 2 gold - down at least 3 techs - we are strong
Japan - 13 cities - 3 gold - down at least 3 techs - we are strong
Persians - 14 cities - 10 gold - tech parity - we are average

we have a marble patio in our palace

we have 31 cities - 212 gold, researching feudalism

1987 culture - 75 / turn
2 settlers
14 workers
5 warriors
17 spearmen
14 swordsman
11 horsemen
1 catapult and 2 galleys


For next player there is not much to hand over, there's a worker and soon a couple of settlers waiting to be transported to island cities,2 galleys are being prodcued for more suicide runs , I didn't do diplomacy in the final turn, the badly corrupted island cities are building temples, this can be vetoed, i tried to build up a few horseman for knight duty as I'm sure sooner or later we have to clear some more of our continent. My micromanagement isn't so good (still took 2 hours to play though)

Good luck


Temporary save on placed here until civfanatics.net comes back

The save

 

[Sir Bugsy]

31 cities! If you figure with a temple/library/cathedral/university/colosseum in each city being worth 14 cpt, we are on our way.

Now if we can just get more cities

It is almost time for a war. What does the team think? Polish off India quickly? Conquer the Japanese homeland before the advent of the Samurai? Some Iroquois cities might fit in nicely?

One of the nice things about have a strong culture will be few flips after conquering and few resisters. We actually might start seeing cities start "yearning to be with us"

 

[zurichuk]

to be honest, it was your dot-maps that helped me immensely, i am not so hot at city placement (as you can probably see from the island which didn't have a dotmap), normally make up for that with good economy management and infrastructure, very interesting and different style of turns for me, but still fun

I just noticed from the screenshot Rheims is now 10, maybe it wants to riot again
Hopefully Hamadan will be the first to give into our future cultural supremacy

A screenie

 

[Sir Bugsy]

If we rush the temples around the Persian city of Hamadan, we can probably have it flip to us in the next twenty turns or so.

Keep filling up those islands. They are going to be very corrupt so we'll have to rush the culture in each.

We might want to try a galley going east.

 

[handy900]

Are we going to ICS the island @ 1 tile between cities or a more mellow ICS @ 2 tiles? You are correct about the corruption, it will be bad.

I agree with Bugsy about a galley from our far east city - I think it's Lahore out on the eastern tip. Looks promising.

With regars to the next war:

We can take out Immortals with knights since they only have 2 on defense. We must make sure we upgrade vet spears to Pikes and have them in the border cities before we do this. If we drive & take the iron from Persia they will go down. Iroquis can be done while we wait for chivalry to arrive.

Japan is intersting. If we do not do them immediatly, before they get samurai, we will have to wait until cavalry I think. Sams are 4 defense 4 attack and move 2. I'd think we need cavalry to get the job done cost effectively. If we wait it will also take a lot of cannon to punch through the choke point. Which is fine, I love to load up on artillery.

If we do Japan first I suggest we sign Persia & Iroquois to an ROP to avoid a 2 front war. By the time we get back to Persia, the Immortals would be much less intimidating. Japan has fertile land that would allow for a great palace rush location if we choose to do so. The longer we wait, the stronger they will get.

Okay, the more I ponder this I'm slightly leaning to Iroquois now, Persia with Knights and Japan last with cavalry. But this is kind of a toss up with pros & cons both ways.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Things are looking good!

I think we should keep expanding onto the islands, but we shouldn't be too concerned about using all our treasury to rush culture yet. We're going to want to save up some money for the upgrade to knights. It'll cost 80g/upgrade, so once we get chivalry we may have to turn off or at least turn down research for a while to get the necessary funds.

And yes, suicide galleys east, west, any which way in which there might be land. It's a good bet that the other continent is probably to the mid-middle ages by now. The sooner we find them, the sooner we can get caught up.

 

[Frollo]

Listen people, I can't play until Sunday night
I even won't be able to pick up the save before tomorrow morning (that's 24 hours from now for you non-European folks).

So feel free to skip my turn if y'all want to keep the pace. For me, better luck next time!

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

It doesn't really matter to me all that much....what does the rest of our glorious team think?

 

[zurichuk]

some comments,questions, thinking out loud

i think we should get some more of our continent when we get knights, that's an obvious statement but we have a huge border to protect if 3 civs go against us
edit handy900's comments on this I like

there are 2 new galleys being produced and we have 2 already, we only need one for shuttling settlers etc to the island so one can be suicidal already, somewhere we have 7 other civs, hopefully they are on 2 unconnectable continents but i doubt it, iut must be a fair size land mass or 2

what do you guys think of the usefulness of catapults (never use them myself until cannons / artillery then loads), should we have some more on the Japanese border town in case they get greedy? how useful are they for defence?

what are the scientific targets, which path is preferable when we have a choice, ie cultural before military / infrastructure or will the culture come anyway due to infrastructure and warring

we are low on cash due to researching ourselves, something i'm not used to anymore, however I am interested in seeing how the rest of the team deal with world maps and contact selling once the suicide galleys succeed (and the possible catchup in tech scenario), definitely a learning experience for me, do you withhold the contacts or use them as a slingshot or how do you deal with it?

i expect the pace of the SG to slow a little (hopefully not to snails pace but a little), we have worked quite fast so far but the turns (with 30+ cities) are beginning to take alot more time especially as you have to think for a team and a specific goal rather than yourself and also the alt-tabbing to notepad

it's 360AD, we still have 390 turns.which not counting the cultural bonuses gets us to 390*75+2000 = approx 31000 without cultural bonuses and further building, looking good if you consider most current culture will double at some stage and extra expansion yet to come

frollo, for me that's close to got in 24 play in 48 but ultimately it's hmm's game and he should decide who decides

 

[handy900]

Originally posted by Frollo
Listen people, I can't play until Sunday night
I even won't be able to pick up the save before tomorrow morning (that's 24 hours from now for you non-European folks).

So feel free to skip my turn if y'all want to keep the pace. For me, better luck next time!

I'll defer to HMMMMM to decide this.

What about cats you ask...
I build alot of cats in an
Always War game. In a regular game I seldom build them, but Japan would be an instance where I would. The cats miss alot attacking a city, but the hit ratio is better when you are attacking a unit outside a city. They will also fire off a shot at any units who attack the choke city. I'll see if I can find the bombard stats at lunch & edit this. The nice thing about cats is they do upgrade to cannon, then artillery. Cannon in the choke point would help alot if Japan gets nasty while we are at war with the other civs.

When we get rails + cav + cannon Japan will be unable to cope with us.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

1. I don't think I've been thinking ICS. I just been thinking, no wasted tiles.

2. Cats are great on defense. I think at least three in our chokepoint city would be very effective.

3. After sleeping on it, I think a quick war to wipe out India, then a war against the Iroquois would be a good idea.

With that in mind, we now begin the classic debate. Do we:

A. Race to Chivalry, and have numerous pre-builds in place and start building knights from scratch. Having a 10-20 turn opportunity to take advantage of our tech advantage.
or,
B. Take a moderate research pace, save money for upgrades, and hope the other civs don't research Chivalry.

I've always leaned towards option A. since the AI tend to go for it too. What does everyone think?