Holocaust denial

[Dida]

Spicer said "you had someone who was despicable as Hitler who didn't even sink to using chemical weapons." This is certainly a very insensitive and inflammatory remark. Now there are people calling for him to be fired for engaging in Holocaust denial.

The Anne Frank Center on Mutual Respect issued a statement via Twitter, saying President Donald Trump should fire Spicer for "engaging in Holocaust denial." "On Passover, no less, Sean Spicer has engaged in Holocaust denial, the most offensive form of fake news imaginable, by denying Hitler gassed millions of Jews to death," said Executive Director of center Steven Goldstein in a statement. "Spicer's statement is the most evil slur upon a group of people we have ever heard from a White House press secretary."
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/11/polit...spicer-fired-white-house-holocaust/index.html
​

So exactly what is the definition of "Holocaust", and what level of disagreement with the "official" definition rises to the level of "denial?" From a reading of Spicer's dumb remark, it didn't seem to me that he was denying Hitler gassed millions of Jews.

 

[onejayhawk]

I thought you were talking about Assad. IIRC he does deny that there was a holocaust.

J

 

[Perfection]

I'm more concerned with Spicer's continual lying than when he puts his foot in his mouth.

 

[Berzerker]

The Anne Frank Center on Mutual Respect issued a statement

which fails to mention the millions of non-Jews murdered by the Nazis

Executive Director of center Steven Goldstein in a statement. "Spicer's statement is the most evil slur upon a group of people we have ever heard from a White House press secretary."

hee haw hee haw

 

[Lexicus]

which fails to mention the millions of non-Jews murdered by the Nazis

Seems anti-Semitic but ok

 

[Truthy]

Spicer is an idiot but this wasn't Holocaust denial

 

[Synobun]

Seems anti-Semitic but ok

I suppose that depends on the context being used.

In this instance, I think it applies. More than simply Jews were the victims of chemical weapons at the hands of Hitler's regime. Good on a Jew-focused organization of calling him out, but it's true that his atrocities impacted more than those who were a part of the Final Solution.

 

[Ryika]

This is one of the interesting cases where it's idiots vs. idiots and you really don't want to even pick a side. Spicer's comment was dumb, because Hitler clearly DID use chemical weapons, not in combat, but as a tool to kill people. And at the same time, people who think he was denying the holocaust and not just failing to realize that the death chambers of the concentration camps clearly worked with chemical weapons, are either so stupid that they literally can't understand the error in his thinking that made him make a ridiculous comparison, or so dishonest that they don't want to understand what he meant.

 

[Lexicus]

In this instance, I think it applies. More than simply Jews were the victims of chemical weapons at the hands of Hitler's regime. Good on a Jew-focused organization of calling him out, but it's true that his atrocities impacted more than those who were a part of the Final Solution.

It is utterly ridiculous to say that an organization obviously created to advocate for Jewish issues is "ignoring non-Jewish victims of the Holocaust". And furthermore, a pretty large majority of those gassed by the Nazis were Jews.

 

[Synobun]

It is utterly ridiculous to say that an organization obviously created to advocate for Jewish issues is "ignoring non-Jewish victims of the Holocaust". And furthermore, a pretty large majority of those gassed by the Nazis were Jews.

Nobody said the first part and nobody is contesting the latter part, unless I've missed some posts in this thread?

 

[Lexicus]

Berzerker said the first part. As far as I can see "pointing out" what he pointed out in post #4 is tantamount to contesting the second part.

 

[Ryika]

I mean, even the post from the Anne Frank Center on Mutual Respect was pointlessly stupid. Why specify Jews, why not just be inclusive towards all victims? There's literally no cost involved in doing that.

 

[Hygro]

This is one of the interesting cases where it's idiots vs. idiots and you really don't want to even pick a side. Spicer's comment was dumb, because Hitler clearly DID use chemical weapons, not in combat, but as a tool to kill people. And at the same time, people who think he was denying the holocaust and not just failing to realize that the death chambers of the concentration camps clearly worked with chemical weapons, are either so stupid that they literally can't understand the error in his thinking that made him make a ridiculous comparison, or so dishonest that they don't want to understand what he meant.

Or they knew he just made a dumbass mistake and they're using it to nail him because that's their agenda.

 

[Berzerker]

Seems anti-Semitic but ok

Why is that? I should be fair to the guy, I dont know if he mentioned Hitler's non-Jewish victims.

It is utterly ridiculous to say that an organization obviously created to advocate for Jewish issues is "ignoring non-Jewish victims of the Holocaust". And furthermore, a pretty large majority of those gassed by the Nazis were Jews.

The Anne Frank Center on Mutual Respect

Spicer was talking about the Syrian gas attack and his reference to Hitler was in that context. Turning that into holocaust denial is even dumber than Spicer's foot-in-mouth disease.

 

[JollyRoger]

Old Spice just got too far ahead of himself as painting Assad as worse than Hitler. Interesting he emphasized the evil of dropping things out of planes on civilians as Assad has yet to order an atomic bomb dropped.

 

[Bootstoots]

This is one of the interesting cases where it's idiots vs. idiots and you really don't want to even pick a side. Spicer's comment was dumb, because Hitler clearly DID use chemical weapons, not in combat, but as a tool to kill people. And at the same time, people who think he was denying the holocaust and not just failing to realize that the death chambers of the concentration camps clearly worked with chemical weapons, are either so stupid that they literally can't understand the error in his thinking that made him make a ridiculous comparison, or so dishonest that they don't want to understand what he meant.

Yeah, it's just stupid all around. Gassing people in gas chambers is one way to use chemical weapons, gassing people (civilians included) in a battlefield situation is another way to use them. The Nazis rarely if ever used gas on the battlefield, but they loved using it in chambers against Jews and other untermenschen. Spicer was only thinking about battlefield use of chemical weapons when he inserted both of his feet into his mouth.

This all said, it is amusing to sit back and watch this sort of thing play out. Watching people launch dumb political statements back and forth like mustard gas on the Somme is great entertainment. Electing a reality show star for president wasn't just a weird blunder on the part of the American electorate, it's because 21st century American politics is a reality show, and the point of a reality show is to sit back and laugh at all the characters behaving in dumb stereotypical ways according to their roles in the show.

 

[Camikaze]

The worst part was when he tried to correct his statement by distinguishing between Hitler and Assad (or Ashad, as he called him) on the basis that Assad targeted innocent victims who are part of his own people. You can kinda see what he was trying to go for, but normally something that idiotic would be caught before it escapes someone's mouth.

Spicer should lose his job because it's a stark example of how incompetent he is. A press secretary should not be acting so amateurishly. It's very doubtful that he denies elements of the Holocaust, although it's possible he would downplay elements of it, or just be historically ignorant. In this case his amateurishness simply makes him look like a buffoon, but it's entirely possible that in other circumstances it could have real adverse consequences for the US, e.g. if he accidentally says something that precipitates conflict.

 

[Berzerker]

I think he has something akin to dyslexia, Maddow just showed a compilation of him getting messed up with the order of words. I do that sometimes.

 

[Berzerker]

I imagine Hitler didn't use battlefield gas because he thought the response would be worse

sorry bout that, should have edited that into my last post

 

[Valka D'Ur]

In Canada, Holocaust denial is something that can result in being charged with a crime, depending on what is said and in which circumstances. It falls under the hate laws, and there have been people who have had legal consequences for their actions.