Horsemen Rush vs. Immortals

[rdomarat]

I've finished my initial expansion, and had no Iron, but two horses. I started building up a mass of Horsemen and successfully took out one of the two other civs currently occupying the continent I'm on. The other civ on the continent are the Persians, and there are Immortals running around everywhere.

This is the first time I've tried a horseman rush, since I've never been without Iron in the early game when I've decided to be aggressive. Will a horseman rush (almost all horsemen are at least veteran) be as effective against Immortals as it was against the previous civ defending with spearman and counter attacking with archers?

Things I'm considering :

1) The Immortals defend with a 2, same as spearmen, and a horseman rush against spearmen is very effective.
2) Immortals have an attack rating of 4 against the defence rating of 1 for horsemen. If my horsemen are attacked by Immortals, they are dead.
3) Horsemen have a move rate of two versus the move rate of one for the Immortals.

I think that the horseman rush will still be effective against Immortals, but I'll lose more horsemen against counter attacks from the Persians, so I might need an extra horsemen or two for each city I plan on taking.

What do other people think?

 

[BillChin]

You have it right. If you have enough units, you can overwhelm Immortals with Horsemen. Cut off their iron and no more Immortals will come out and the war is decided. It may costs a lot of units, but victory is there for the taking.

Waiting for Knights is just as good if not better and will make the war a bit easier. If there is another opponent after the Persians, Knights may make that next war go much better as you will have many more units.

 

[Arrian]

Your logic holds, but I'd bring a LOT of horsemen.

Personally, I'm all about horseman rushes (I love Japan for this). Here's a question: what civ are you playing? Do you have a middle ages UU? If so, maybe you should wait.

Definitely bring some good defensive units and try to get them on Persia's iron. Cut off their supply of Immortals.

Also, the key to destroying most of their immortals is taking a city and allowing them to counterattack. Let them come to you. Their 1 movement means they must stop right outside your city. Then hit them with massed horsemen. Use your mobility to your advantage.

Also beware their golden age - you're gonna trigger it. All in all, I'd say that unless you can cut their iron fairly easily, wait for knights.

-Arrian

 

[Crunchy]

Make sure you have enough moves to attack and then retreat at least one square away, this way they can never attack your horsemen.

 

[Zouave]

Horseman rushes can work. But whether you should wait for knights depends on the overall strategic situation.
This is especially so if you think you can get to them before the Persians. It also depends on how much iron the Persian has and where; if only one near a border it is likely worth trying. But don't forget trade. Personally, I'd usually wait.

 

[Mr Adeoye]

it might work with enough horses and platy of supply from backup spearmen to protect the newly captured cities and vulnerable horsemen.

 

[rdomarat]

Just thought I'd let you know how things went. I was taking on the Persians who had about 6 core cities and another 10 or 12 size 1-3 cities. I had around 40 horsemen, and would crank out about 1.5 horsemen per turn that could reach the front line in another 3 turns.

My horsemen rush against the Persians was unsuccessfull. I don't believe it had anything to do with the fact I was attacking Immortals, but had more to do with the fact that it was later in the game, and the AI had more units than the first civ I rolled over with my horsemen. My first turn was incredibly successfull, and I had 5 stack of eight horsmen that quicly over-ran 5 seperate cities. Every city I came to after that had at least four defenders in it. If the stack of horsemen didn't take the city the first round they attacked, I watched another few defenesive units pour into the city the next turn. I was able to capture all the outlying towns that belonged to Persia, and left them with just the five cities surrounding the capitol, which I'll take care of when Knights come along.

So, I think my original question is answered, and Immortals don't have that much of an effect on the horsemen rush, but a horsemen rush in the late Ancient Era just won't work unless you have a massive stack of horsmen you're willing to sacrifice, which I just didn't have. Oh well, live and learn. I'll make bigger stacks if I'm tempted to try this again.

Thanks for the advice all!

 

[Zachriel]

The best solution is to rush with horsemen before the discovery of iron working.

 

[rdomarat]

Originally posted by Zachriel
The best solution is to rush with horsemen before the discovery of iron working.

Well where the hell were you four days ago?

 

[Zouave]

Originally posted by Mr Adeoye
it might work with enough horses and platy of supply from backup spearmen to protect the newly captured cities and vulnerable horsemen.

That's something people occasionally forget - to bring up cheaper foot soldiers to hold territory and garrison, and to absorb the shock of any counterattacks.

I Edited all knights to 5.2.2, since 4.3. is too low an attack factor and a defense factor the same as rifle-armed cavalry is absurd. It also requires you bring in any invasion pikemen to hold territory - far more realistic.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by rdomarat


Well where the hell were you four days ago?

I was, well, I, . . .

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Zouave


That's something people occasionally forget - to bring up cheaper foot soldiers to hold territory and garrison, and to absorb the shock of any counterattacks.

Good thing to remember.