How difficult are diplomatic wins on Immortal?

[Gary King]

I play on Emperor difficulty. I used to go for Domination victories because that's what I did in Civ IV, but moving so many troops through the entire map because so tedious that I decided to go for Science victories. But on the way, I realized that I accidentally won Diplomacy victories, so I made that my primary victory condition now.

But now, I plan on moving up to Immortal because I'm winning about 90% of my Emperor games via Diplomacy (about 80% of the time) or Science (about 20% of the time).

I'm a decent player when it comes to combat in Civ V, and I definitely have enough defensive units at all times in my Emperor games. But whenever I watch Deity level players, they are always fighting other civs, especially in the early game. Is that always necessary? Can I still play a peaceful game in Immortal, and win via Diplomacy (or should I go Science instead)?

 

[adwcta]

Diplomacy wins are not incompatible with war. You only need to make peace with each civ at some point to buy out their city states, you can go to war with them before/after that. Or, if you use the autocracy 3rd tier tenant, you don't even need to be at peace to win CS influence.

That being said, peaceful games on Deity are entirely possible. Don't forward expand, pay tribute to your neighbors, bribe them to war against other civs, help them out when they ask for it, make only popular world congress proposals, send trade routes, build landmarks for them, etc. Since you don't really need ideologies to win a diplomacy victory, you can also freely switch over to the most popular ideology of your neighbors, if it's not the one you chose, to ensure peace.

 

[sherbz]

You need cash, pure and simple. The easiest civs to win diplomatically are Greece, Morocco and Venice (IMO). Its also a lot more difficult to win if any of the above are aslo in the game (especially Greece). Its perfectly possible to win on immortal peacefully. Deity is more if a challenge. You need to be careful about where you put your cities as the AI will DOW on you if you put them anywhere near them.

 

[Memoryjar]

Sweden is also a good choice.
Arsenal of Democracy and Mercenary army/Mercantilism help a lot too.

 

[myclan]

I have to say:very easy if you choose freedom, I often choose DV for it's the fastest victory type

 

[danaphanous]

I have to say:very easy if you choose freedom, I often choose DV for it's the fastest victory type

Culture wins can be quicker as the vote doesn't start until pretty late in the tech tree.

 

[reddishrecue]

Immortal diplomatic wins are a challenge. I used Portugal once and built many Naus to make all that extra money for the diplomatic victory. However, I still couldn't land that diplomatic victory on time. Another civilization took a science victory or something.

 

[joncnunn]

Diplomatic victory: Can still sometimes be achieved faster than any other type even after fall patch.

The main key here is normally Globalism so your diplomats give you votes.
Build NIA: Extra spy => extra diplomat => extra vote

Have your ideology become the world one => 2 extra votes

During the Atomic Era use spies to become allies with city states via coup.

Use Freedom's policy that gives you influence every turn with city states that you run trade routes with as well. (Taking an economic hit, but a diplomatic boost)

Conquer whichever city built FP (or build it yourself) for two more extra votes.

 

[Gary King]

Okay thanks for all the tips. The information seems to be somewhat conflicting though, but the general consensus seems to be that a Diplomatic Victory on Immortal is tough, which is troubling. It's actually the easiest victory condition for me as I said; it's way easier than Science. I'll usually slingshot after building Research Labs to Globalization, using Science Bulbs.

I'm surprised to hear that Culture is easier than Diplomacy? I've never even tried a Culture win, because my Tourism is usually pathetically low in every game I played, so I can't imagine focusing solely on that. It'd be easier to just destroy everyone's empire, then the Tourism requirement for each would be lower. I know that multipliers are important for Tourism (Open Borders, shared religions/ideologies, etc.), though, but I always figure that I might miss something or whatnot.

I'll try as Greece and see how it goes.

Diplomatic victory: Can still sometimes be achieved faster than any other type even after fall patch.

The main key here is normally Globalism so your diplomats give you votes.
Build NIA: Extra spy => extra diplomat => extra vote

Have your ideology become the world one => 2 extra votes

During the Atomic Era use spies to become allies with city states via coup.

Use Freedom's policy that gives you influence every turn with city states that you run trade routes with as well. (Taking an economic hit, but a diplomatic boost)

Conquer whichever city built FP (or build it yourself) for two more extra votes.

Totally agree with pretty much everything you said. That's the strategy I use on Emperor, and it is SO EASY. Science is IMPORTANT when going for a Diplomacy win because then you get access to the Forbidden City, and you get access to Ideologies way before anyone else.

This is important because when you choose a World Ideology, no one gets pissed because they don't have an Ideology yet! Very important! Too bad the same can't be said for Religion, so I usually avoid that, unless I have the world's most powerful military—which is often the case, with a science lead.

Diplomacy Victories seem a bit underrated sometimes, and takes a backseat to Science victories? It IS a bit more boring than Science victories though; it's always fun to race building space parts! And I guess Science is always an option because sometimes another AI Civ like Greece will grab too many City-States.

 

[adwcta]

As you move up in difficulty, it becomes very very not guaranteed to be able to tech fast enough for forbidden city and/or ideology proposal before AI has ideologies. The AI gets very mad at you if they pick up an ideology at any time before the vote (not just the turn you propose it).

The margin of victory with globalization and no FP is 3 city states (assuming you can stay peaceful with 6 of 7 AI civs while proposing world ideology; if you don't propose it, its 2). The AI takes out CSs on higher difficulties regularly. So, you need to liberate (which involves war), or compensate (which involves FP, world religion, or world ideology).

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[danaphanous]

Yep. I've won a diplomatic victory on Deity but it was a smaller map. Becomes very difficult as CS numbers rise on large maps. Much more likely a few will get wiped out.

I still had to liberate a CS and get a couple rounds of near-misses + liberating an extinct civ.

I didn't hear this mentioned, but if you liberate an extinct civ they vote for you with their 4 votes so they make up 2 CS's that might've gotten conquered.

 

[joncnunn]

On Immortal & Diety how soon you need to snag FP (when you want it) to beat the AI is extremely specific to which AIs are in the game.

If Greece or Siam is in the game you have a lot less time than if they aren't. (Flavor driven is which AIs open Patronage at all.)

 

[reddishrecue]

Diplomatic victory: Can still sometimes be achieved faster than any other type even after fall patch.

Have your ideology become the world one => 2 extra votes

During the Atomic Era use spies to become allies with city states via coup.

Use Freedom's policy that gives you influence every turn with city states that you run trade routes with as well. (Taking an economic hit, but a diplomatic boost)

Conquer whichever city built FP (or build it yourself) for two more extra votes.

These are all some things I didn't know. Im trying to focus on the positive here but I have failed coup elections at 85%. I now rig elections instead because of this.. Just saying

 

[Gary King]

If a few CS get eliminated, then does the number of votes required to win get decreased, or does it remain the same, therefore making it harder to win?

 

[spontaneous1]

If a few CS get eliminated, then does the number of votes required to win get decreased, or does it remain the same, therefore making it harder to win?

The number of votes required goes down,however I would not be against reviving a few,for a eternal CS ally.

 

[Memoryjar]

On Immortal & Diety how soon you need to snag FP (when you want it) to beat the AI is extremely specific to which AIs are in the game.

If Greece or Siam is in the game you have a lot less time than if they aren't. (Flavor driven is which AIs open Patronage at all.)

Deity is apart. I won an only DV with Venice (easier civ for diplo, I think).

On Immortal, AI sucks after Industrial era. So, if you can't win DV, you have to improve your gameplay. More surely, if you can win SV.
You only need one tech : globalization. 8 turns before world leader election send all your spy as diplomat.
Diplo is my plan B on Immortal, even with Greece on map. Thanks to coup.

One tips : build trading post to boost your gpt as soon you reach plastics. Also build market, bank and stock exchange. In a standard game, you can have around 250/300 gpt 20 turns before world leader election.

 

[reddishrecue]

The number of votes requires down,however I would not be against reviving a few,for a eternal CS ally.

Reviving a cs will give you the revived cs as an ally for sure.

 

[pvtjava]

If a few CS get eliminated, then does the number of votes required to win get decreased, or does it remain the same, therefore making it harder to win?

I think the required vote count only decreases by one vote, while the CS would provide two, so there is a point where it can be counter-productive to eliminate them.

 

[adwcta]

The number of votes required goes down,however I would not be against reviving a few,for a eternal CS ally.

No longer true after fall patch.
CS count only goes down if they're removed from game via Austria/Venice.

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[joncnunn]

No longer true after fall patch.
CS count only goes down if they're removed from game via Austria/Venice.

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In a recent game, me reviving the second city state caused the count needed to win to go up by one. (Still net positive for me since you get 2 votes for an ally)
So either the count still goes down every other time someone kills a city state, or they left in code to add things back.