pgi27
Chieftain
I want to know if I should get them or not...
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Civilization 7 has been announced. For more info please check the forum here .
How good are the expansion packs?
- Thread starter pgi27
- Start date
phungus420
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Messages
- 6,296
Warlords = worthless (no reason to get this)
Beyond the Sword = Awesome
So yeah, assuming you enjoy Civilization IV in the first place, get Beyond the Sword. Plus BtS opens up all of the best community made mods, as all the good ones require BtS now. Mods like Planetefall, History of the Three Kingdoms, Legends of Revolution, Fall from Heaven 2, Dune Wars, and many more all require you be upgraded to BtS to play; and these mods are like full on new games or expansion by themselves. Basically BtS gives you access to like a $100 of content for free in the form of community created modpacks.
Beyond the Sword = Awesome
So yeah, assuming you enjoy Civilization IV in the first place, get Beyond the Sword. Plus BtS opens up all of the best community made mods, as all the good ones require BtS now. Mods like Planetefall, History of the Three Kingdoms, Legends of Revolution, Fall from Heaven 2, Dune Wars, and many more all require you be upgraded to BtS to play; and these mods are like full on new games or expansion by themselves. Basically BtS gives you access to like a $100 of content for free in the form of community created modpacks.
pgi27
Chieftain
Few more questions:
1: Other than the mods, what's good about getting BtS?
2: Is Vanilla the original Civ IV?
3: Why do you think that Warlords isn't that good?
1: Other than the mods, what's good about getting BtS?
2: Is Vanilla the original Civ IV?
3: Why do you think that Warlords isn't that good?
BtS is your basic run of the mill expansion (and contains all the additions from Warlords, minus the scenarios). It expands the game and you get more of pretty much everything. One could say that BtS is "more" Civilization than Vanilla. Do you want more or is Vanilla enough for you to handle?
I will personally always want more and more features in Civ - as long as they're balanced. Besides new units, civilizations, leaders, wonders and the like, BtS also includes a spanking new Espionage system and Corporations, to name a couple of the the main selling points. There are also lots of rules changes and the addition of random events. Try this link for the specifics:
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/bts/
I'd recommend it, because it's the latest version of Civilization, if nothing else. (You want the latest version of Civilization, right?)(Some of the new features can in fact be disabled if you don't wanna over expand the game.)
edit: The original core game is also known as "Vanilla". As in no particular flavor, just plain ice cream.
I will personally always want more and more features in Civ - as long as they're balanced. Besides new units, civilizations, leaders, wonders and the like, BtS also includes a spanking new Espionage system and Corporations, to name a couple of the the main selling points. There are also lots of rules changes and the addition of random events. Try this link for the specifics:
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/bts/
I'd recommend it, because it's the latest version of Civilization, if nothing else. (You want the latest version of Civilization, right?)(Some of the new features can in fact be disabled if you don't wanna over expand the game.)
edit: The original core game is also known as "Vanilla". As in no particular flavor, just plain ice cream.
People consider Warlords worthless because all of the new stuff it had is also in Beyond the Sword. So buying Beyond the Sword is like buying both Beyond the Sword and Warlords, content wise.
And yes, Vanilla Civ is Civ without the expansions.
Personally I would reccomend BTS because it has a bunch of new features. Or get the complete edition.
And yes, Vanilla Civ is Civ without the expansions.
Personally I would reccomend BTS because it has a bunch of new features. Or get the complete edition.
Badtz Maru
King
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2001
- Messages
- 674
Warlords added a lot, but all it added (except for the scenarios, which I rarely play) was also included in Beyond the Sword, so if you don't like playing lots of different scenarios I would skip it. If you do enjoy them, you can probably find it really cheap.
Beyond the Sword really rounded out the gameplay. Parts of the game that were weak (like the late game and religion) were made much more important. Espionage was made far more useful. It's not quite a whole new game, but it's definitely a transformative expansion pack. I would never play vanilla Civ4 again, it would feel incomplete.
Beyond the Sword really rounded out the gameplay. Parts of the game that were weak (like the late game and religion) were made much more important. Espionage was made far more useful. It's not quite a whole new game, but it's definitely a transformative expansion pack. I would never play vanilla Civ4 again, it would feel incomplete.
Chewie
Chieftain
Buy Civ 4 Complete if you can, it shouldn't cost much more than Civ by itself. Once you play with the Beyond the Sword expansion pack, it's hard to go back to without it.
CivMcNut
Having Fun At It
One thing I have enjoyed about Beyond the Sword is the different types of random map scripts it added. I enjoy playing a fractal map (unpredictable) quite a bit. Also there are a lot more leaders to choose from, and you get unique buildings with every empire. It overall just feels like a more complete game. As I understood it, Warlords only has some of the upgrades that BTS does.
StargazingDog
Warlord
Fractal maps are in vanilla.
I'd say that unless:
1) you are totally played out of vanilla civ
2) you really want to play multiplayer with strangers
3) you want to be able to use any mod you wish
you can avoid the expansions.
I'd say that unless:
1) you are totally played out of vanilla civ
2) you really want to play multiplayer with strangers
3) you want to be able to use any mod you wish
you can avoid the expansions.
sabo
My Ancestors were Vikings
BTS is good, I've only played about 2 Warlords.
WuphonsReach
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2005
- Messages
- 426
Warlords was good, but BtS adds:
- corporations (a late-game religion with serious benefits)
- revamp of espionage making it a key portion of play
- better AI (but I still run the Better AI mod)
- some rebalancing of late-game military units
- more civs / leaders
I don't know whether you can play BtS without Warlords, so buy a "complete" version of Civ4 with both expansions just to be safe. I've been happy with both expansions.
- corporations (a late-game religion with serious benefits)
- revamp of espionage making it a key portion of play
- better AI (but I still run the Better AI mod)
- some rebalancing of late-game military units
- more civs / leaders
I don't know whether you can play BtS without Warlords, so buy a "complete" version of Civ4 with both expansions just to be safe. I've been happy with both expansions.
mjf200
Chieftain
you can get BTS without Warlords. I would recommend BTS, I just wish I got it sooner. The new features and units are very nice.
another thing to consider is it seems most on here have BTS so when reading posts and asking questions you will be comparing apples to apples.
I also just got the BUG mod recently which is also very nice. It does not change the gameply, it let's you see the information about your game easier. For example, it will tell you when your city is about to become unhappy, when a city is about to shrink. It also gives you info about the AI civs that you normally have to talk to them to get. So instead of talking to them every turn to see what they are up to you can just look at their stats on the right. One thing I just learned is, when you ask an AI to declare war on someone, if there reason not to is "We have enough on our hands already" that means they are plannning a war against someone already, it could be you or another AI. In the BUG mod, a little fist pops up next to their name on the lower right of the screen. I find this info very helpful and its all stuff you can get on your own, it just makes it easier and let's you spend more time on other more enjoyable things.
another thing to consider is it seems most on here have BTS so when reading posts and asking questions you will be comparing apples to apples.
I also just got the BUG mod recently which is also very nice. It does not change the gameply, it let's you see the information about your game easier. For example, it will tell you when your city is about to become unhappy, when a city is about to shrink. It also gives you info about the AI civs that you normally have to talk to them to get. So instead of talking to them every turn to see what they are up to you can just look at their stats on the right. One thing I just learned is, when you ask an AI to declare war on someone, if there reason not to is "We have enough on our hands already" that means they are plannning a war against someone already, it could be you or another AI. In the BUG mod, a little fist pops up next to their name on the lower right of the screen. I find this info very helpful and its all stuff you can get on your own, it just makes it easier and let's you spend more time on other more enjoyable things.
StargazingDog
Warlord
Anyone have a concrete list of how the AI is "better" in BtS? The only real comments I have seen in regards to the BtS AI is how poor it is, although this is usually in relation to the BtS-only features like colonies or vassals.
From what I've read, high level players usually agree the AI at high difficulties was easier in Warlords than it was in BtS. The Better AI project was started on Warlords IIRC so when BtS was developed Firaxis got the help of the then Better AI guys (Blake, Iustus). Broadly speaking, this made the AI more ruthless as it was the view at the time (and still is now) that the AI's main failings are in times of war.
In this sense, for those who are intimidated by difficult AI BtS could even be less enjoyable than Warlords, but most people seem to prefer a stronger AI even if it is a slightly more war-like one.
I play only BtS. I honestly don't see any reason to play Warlords because IMO everything that was added in BtS was either an improvement or didn't make the game any worse.
In this sense, for those who are intimidated by difficult AI BtS could even be less enjoyable than Warlords, but most people seem to prefer a stronger AI even if it is a slightly more war-like one.
I play only BtS. I honestly don't see any reason to play Warlords because IMO everything that was added in BtS was either an improvement or didn't make the game any worse.
pgi27
Chieftain
If I can fix my computer (Hasn't wanted to install games lately :/) I think I'll get BtS.
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