How to deal with Ideology "pressure"?

[Exterminas]

Thanks for the Feedback so far! In my future Domination Games I will put a stronger focus on Tourism then. I was just poory informed as to what purpose Tourism serves.

I solved my current problem by swallowing my pride as a warmonger and converting to Order. With an extremely wide empire such as mine, it wasn't that bad a choice. Freedom would have been worse.

 

[Lira]

The game has become incredibly complex. I had a similar problem, except I was the world's leading civilisation in tourism (playing with Poland), and focused enough on culture to have my very own hermitage... but that still didn't stop the second largest civilisation (Portugal) from unilaterally influencing me - despite the fact everyone else picked the ideology I was using! - because of all the culture Maria I got from city states.

Then she decided it was time to have my religion as the world religion. Muitíssimo obrigado, Dona Maria

 

[Yzman]

Yeah you could just solve it by switching to order, unless you are against that for some reason.

I just had a domination victory and I never had that issue. The cultural powerhouses were destroyed by me and I am became the cultural powerhouse.

 

[kukatr]

Yesterday I have finished a domination victory with the Zulus. Well, the world were lying in smoking ruins I needed only the capitals and and two city states at important positions. Maybe that would have saved from this unhappiness level.

 

[leadtothehead]

I would look for another Autocratic Civ that you could trade or sell some of your puppeted cities to, select the ones that are net drags on happiness and make them someone elses problem, or like someone else said raze them completely.

I had similar problems but with only three captured cities, it was like yours a huge map with 8 of the 12 civs taking order while I had autocracy, i had reached revolutionary wave level of ideological pressure and had to spend a couple great writers and artists to culture spike my culture enough to improve it but i have not been able to get back to content, merely civil resistance.

 

[phillipwyllie]

You need to generate culture, and that should start from turn 1. The first thing you should build is the monument, and possibly unlock Tradition, then Liberty for a grand total of 7 culture per turn right at the start. A civ's tourism only starts to affect you(and yours them) when you meet them, but your cumulative culture will take affect.

Another strategy is to try and put of taking your ideology until you have at least ~30 happiness.

 

[Rat of War]

I had similar problem. In one turn my happiness dropped from +30 to -10. I was able to resolve this crisis by manipulating tourism modifiers. Try closing borders and rerouting caravans.

 

[Fummy]

Sometimes when you can't be bothered to fight back against someone elses tourism you can just conquer them. Especially as a warmonger. Then you will get all their wonders and great works, giving you a better defense against other civ's influence later.

 

[mrwho]

So what is defense? Culture or tourism?

Does having a lot of culture at all help offensively (other than SPs)? Does having a lot of tourism help defensively? If yes to these questions, how so? Isn't the entire concept that culture is defensive and tourism offensive?

 

[Dai]

So what is defense? Culture or tourism?

Does having a lot of culture at all help offensively (other than SPs)? Does having a lot of tourism help defensively? If yes to these questions, how so? Isn't the entire concept that culture is defensive and tourism offensive?

Culture and tourism are BOTH offense and BOTH defense in terms of defending yourself from ideological pressure. The oft-repeated notion that tourism is the offense and culture is the defense applies only to winning a cultural victory, where other people's influence over you doesn't make any difference. It's completely misleading and wrong when applied to ideology pressure, because ideology pressure cares about your influence over them AND their influence over you.

In terms of ideology pressure:

Culture is Offense, because it helps keeps other people's influence over you down, which increases the gap between your influence over them and their influence over you, if yours is higher. If you're Influential over them, but you have so much culture that they're only Exotic over you, they get unhappiness.

Culture is Defense, because it keeps other people's influence over you down, which reduces unhappiness. If somebody is Familiar over you and you're only Exotic over them, you get unhappiness. If you had more culture, so they were only Exotic over you, you wouldn't have that unhappiness.

Tourism is Offense, because it increases your influence over somebody else. If you're both exotic over each other, nobody gets any unhappiness. If you bump up your tourism, and now you're Familiar over them, they get some unhappiness.

Tourism is Defense, because it increases your influence over somebody else, which can close the gap between their influence and yours. If you have no Tourism, you'll be Unknown over everybody else, which means that as soon as somebody with a different ideology becomes exotic over you, you get a bunch of unhappiness. If you had enough tourism to be exotic over them too, you wouldn't get that unhappiness.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Yup, Dai hit it perfectly. Culture = D and Tourism = O applies to the requisites you need to get a cultural victory over a Civ(s).

That metaphor does not cover ideology pressure. Ideology is not a method of winning, it is a method of combat. It is a way for a civ to hurt another civ indirectly w/o having to go to war (which is by attacking their happiness). How much pressure one has against each other is dependent if one Civ finds the other Civ to be exotic/familiar/etc and vice versa. Let's say Exotic is worth 1 point and familiar is worth 2 points, that's a 1 point difference which equates to a 1 point unhappiness penalty (and from what I remember it scales off of population/cities, so you would get 1 unhappiness per city or 10 citizens). My numbers might be off, but that's generally how it works.

Getting enough tourism to stop this is not difficult, and often times you will passively do it as a warmonger. If anything culture and warmonging are very intertwined in BNW. You just expanded far too quickly without the minimum amount of tourism to survive against a culture civ. With all the land you have, you would have access to a lot of great works due to archeology, so fixing your tourism is actually very easy (and aside from using production and science on archeology, you would can still built warmonging centric things).


It's a cool and much needed mechanic (I've always thought there should be other ways to hurt your opponent than merely killing them), but it is not explained very well in BNW, it's probably going to make the game inaccessible for a lot of new comers.

 

[Chiatroll]

Culture and tourism are BOTH offense and BOTH defense in terms of defending yourself from ideological pressure. The oft-repeated notion that tourism is the offense and culture is the defense applies only to winning a cultural victory, where other people's influence over you doesn't make any difference. It's completely misleading and wrong when applied to ideology pressure, because ideology pressure cares about your influence over them AND their influence over you.

In terms of ideology pressure:

Culture is Offense, because it helps keeps other people's influence over you down, which increases the gap between your influence over them and their influence over you, if yours is higher. If you're Influential over them, but you have so much culture that they're only Exotic over you, they get unhappiness.

Culture is Defense, because it keeps other people's influence over you down, which reduces unhappiness. If somebody is Familiar over you and you're only Exotic over them, you get unhappiness. If you had more culture, so they were only Exotic over you, you wouldn't have that unhappiness.

Tourism is Offense, because it increases your influence over somebody else. If you're both exotic over each other, nobody gets any unhappiness. If you bump up your tourism, and now you're Familiar over them, they get some unhappiness.

Tourism is Defense, because it increases your influence over somebody else, which can close the gap between their influence and yours. If you have no Tourism, you'll be Unknown over everybody else, which means that as soon as somebody with a different ideology becomes exotic over you, you get a bunch of unhappiness. If you had enough tourism to be exotic over them too, you wouldn't get that unhappiness.

This is something I didn't know and I'm very glad to have this information now.

 

[Falconiano]

You're slacking on culture.
Every game you should build sistine imho. The AI doesn't prioritize it anyways.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Let me see if I understand whole pressure mechanic.

For example your civ is more influential against any other civ, and uses Freedom.

All other civs also use Freedom.

And lets say world ideology order is active (enacted by recently destroyed civ).


How will pressure work?

Based on discussion:

Your civ will have 2 pressure from order and be unhappy. Other freedom civs dont help, since they have low influence on you.

The least influential civ will be happy since freedom pressure from all other civs will be higher then world order pressure.

The second most influential civ may also be unhappy if they have higher influence level against all civs exempt yours, if your civ is only one level in influence over them. They would get 2 pressure from world order and one from your freedom.

I am only not sure about level of unhappiness for the second civ. Will it be 2 or 1. Does freedom pressusre mitigate happiness penalty from order.

 

[VainoValkea]

Let me see if I understand whole pressure mechanic.

For example your civ is more influential against any other civ, and uses Freedom.

All other civs also use Freedom.

And lets say world ideology order is active (enacted by recently destroyed civ).


How will pressure work?

All civs receive order pressure from World Ideology, your civ supports the Freedom ideology of all other civs, but, as far as I know, receives no support from them because you have the most influence.

 

[player1 fanatic]

I updated my post with idea how I assmed this works.

It seems like world ideology hurts a lot cultural leads in the game.

Diplomacy is only meaningful defese for them.


I would not say it is broken, but a weird system.

 

[VainoValkea]

Having world religion for yourself isn't hard to get though.

 

[erebos]

I've found that autocracy is perfect to force your people into happiness, had 70+ happiness last game on king difficulty. Problem is if you don't have the time to pick the tenets that make people happy. I would then recommend to wait with ideology picking (factory building) until the biggest tourism nation has picked one and then pick mine.

 

[Babri]

I've found that autocracy is perfect to force your people into happiness, had 70+ happiness last game on king difficulty. Problem is if you don't have the time to pick the tenets that make people happy. I would then recommend to wait with ideology picking (factory building) until the biggest tourism nation has picked one and then pick mine.

Why not just take Autocracy & conquer that tourism factory!

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