How to get a job (or not)

[Birdjaguar]

Between jobs. I was living in the DFW area but am (temporarily) back with my parents (small town in the middle of nowhere) because of the coronavirus making employment opportunities pretty hard for the time being so I might as well stay home and not have to pay rent.

That said, I'm attending a virtual, online job fair on the 21st of this month, two days from me posting this. The job fair will last a solid majority of the day, and I plan on being there the whole time.

With nothing better to do, I'm studying vigorously to give me more employable skills. A comfortable majority of my waking hours these days (at least 80% of the time from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed) is spent studying. Mostly between studying for the first half of the A+ certification, and some coding. (visual basic and SQL).

I get to the point so many times a day where I feel like my brain can barely process any new information but I keep pressing on because I have nothing better to do and would feel guilty to just be a bum.

Advice from @rah or anyone else in this field would be highly appreciated.

If possible, have copies of what you can do/have done with you. Dress nicely. Have a list of good questions to ask interviewers. Focus talk on what you can contribute to their success.

 

[SunTzu]

Listing examples of accomplishments on your CV is good. For example, if you led a project that resulted in 10% savings to the company, then add that and be prepared to talk to it.

Focus on accomplishments more than just listing responsibilities.

 

[caketastydelish]

I have lack of work experience in the field and have mostly only worked minimum wageish jobs in my life that any high schooler could.

 

[Truthy]

Between jobs. I was living in the DFW area but am (temporarily) back with my parents (small town in the middle of nowhere) because of the coronavirus making employment opportunities pretty hard for the time being so I might as well stay home and not have to pay rent.

That said, I'm attending a virtual, online job fair on the 21st of this month, two days from me posting this. The job fair will last a solid majority of the day, and I plan on being there the whole time.

With nothing better to do, I'm studying vigorously to give me more employable skills. A comfortable majority of my waking hours these days (at least 80% of the time from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed) is spent studying. Mostly between studying for the first half of the A+ certification, and some coding. (visual basic and SQL).

I get to the point so many times a day where I feel like my brain can barely process any new information but I keep pressing on because I have nothing better to do and would feel guilty to just be a bum.

Advice from @rah or anyone else in this field would be highly appreciated.

What specific roles are you looking for?

Have you worked on any projects?

Do you know basics of networks and network security (e.g., the protocol layers), basics of how operating systems work, and how to use a command-line?

 

[Goodfella]

Between jobs. I was living in the DFW area but am (temporarily) back with my parents (small town in the middle of nowhere) because of the coronavirus making employment opportunities pretty hard for the time being so I might as well stay home and not have to pay rent.

That said, I'm attending a virtual, online job fair on the 21st of this month, two days from me posting this. The job fair will last a solid majority of the day, and I plan on being there the whole time.

With nothing better to do, I'm studying vigorously to give me more employable skills. A comfortable majority of my waking hours these days (at least 80% of the time from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed) is spent studying. Mostly between studying for the first half of the A+ certification, and some coding. (visual basic and SQL).

I get to the point so many times a day where I feel like my brain can barely process any new information but I keep pressing on because I have nothing better to do and would feel guilty to just be a bum.

Advice from @rah or anyone else in this field would be highly appreciated.

I don't know much about IT, but perhaps some general advice that you may or may not find useful. Research the companies you'll be speaking with beforehand so you'll seem knowledgable and interested in them when you talk to the recruiters. Getting a job often involves a slight amount of flattery; seeming interested in a company and thinking it's cool can help flatter the person you're talking to, leave a good impression, and make yourself more memorable. You can use your research to ask intelligent questions about the positions and the company. Having good questions generally indicates that you're knowledgable without having to regurgitate knowledge. You can also ask questions about the recruiters you talk to do. What types of problems are they solving in their day-to-day. Most people love to talk about themselves, even recruiters, so it's good to set up a situation where they get to babble about themselves a little.

If possible (and this isn't always possible), try to get contact information from the people you talk to. Once you get their emails, email them nice messages where you thank them for chatting with you, and specifically mention something interesting or insightful they told you. To this end, take notes when you talk to the recruiters. These thank you emails will make you more memorable and the more memorable you are, the more likely they'll pull your resume out of the pile when they go to do interviews. It's very important that you send these thank you emails if you can. You can also reiterate in the thank you emails the specific positions that you're interested in. I'm assuming you'll do this via web cam. Wear nice clothes (maybe even a jacket and tie if you can), and play around with your camera, face expressions, face angles, and lighting to see what makes you seem the most attractive. Record yourself talking ahead of time to identify annoying echoes in your room and make sure your voice and speaking style sound good.

Even if you take all the advice supplied here and in this thread, it's important to know that even the most qualified people get rejected from many jobs. You just need to do what you can to move the odds in your favor as much as possible and over time it'll hasten the unemployment.

 

[IglooDame]

Between jobs. I was living in the DFW area but am (temporarily) back with my parents (small town in the middle of nowhere) because of the coronavirus making employment opportunities pretty hard for the time being so I might as well stay home and not have to pay rent.

That said, I'm attending a virtual, online job fair on the 21st of this month, two days from me posting this. The job fair will last a solid majority of the day, and I plan on being there the whole time.

With nothing better to do, I'm studying vigorously to give me more employable skills. A comfortable majority of my waking hours these days (at least 80% of the time from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed) is spent studying. Mostly between studying for the first half of the A+ certification, and some coding. (visual basic and SQL).

I get to the point so many times a day where I feel like my brain can barely process any new information but I keep pressing on because I have nothing better to do and would feel guilty to just be a bum.

Advice from @rah or anyone else in this field would be highly appreciated.

I've been in IT for a couple decades now, the last several as a frontline supervisor. If you'd like, privatemessage me your resume in .doc form (with your name/phone/email/address info replaced by amusing fake info please) and I'll review it and tell you what, as a hiring manager, that I'd like and wouldn't like.

I know you're trying to cover all bases, but consider focusing on one area, at least till you cross a reasonable finish line for that area (like passing an A+ exam). Most jobs aren't going to let someone new to IT touch their DB servers, and visual basic (in my limited view, I'm mostly on the network side now) is somewhat outdated. An AWS baseline cert or similar entry-level cloud hosting cert goes a long ways nowadays, too.

 

[rah]

(visual basic and SQL).

Both still in demand. Especially SQL. Focus on companies that are data reliant and not necessarily just web reliant.
Good SQL skills will score you points. Even SQL dB skills will serve you well, but really understanding the query side is in higher demand.
Or at least it was up till I retired.
I haven't had to look at a resume for longer than I ever had in my career. (and I"m loving it)

And ask for help from people here and anyone else you know.
I once Hired a civ modder that I played MP with who had no experience in the language I was hiring him for. He parlayed it into quite a successful career.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Here are 20 questions to think about asking. Choose just 3 or 4.

Twenty best questions to ask your interviewer:

1. What's the biggest change your group has gone through in the last year? Does your group feel like the recession is over and things are getting better, or are things still pretty bleak?
2. If I get the job, how do I earn a "gold star" on my performance review? What are the key accomplishments you'd like to see in this role over the next year?
3. What's your (or my future boss') leadership style?
4. About which competitor are you most worried?
5. How does sales/operations/technology/marketing/finance work around here? (I.e., groups other than the one you're looking to work in.)
6. What types of people are successful here? What types of people are not?
7. What's one thing that's key to this company's success that somebody from outside the company wouldn't know about?
8. How did you get your start in this industry? Why do you stay?
9. What are your group's best and worst working relationships with other groups in the company?
10. What keeps you up at night? What's your biggest worry these days?
11. What's the timeline for making a decision on this position? When should I get back in touch with you?
12. These are tough economic times, and every position is precious when it comes to the budget. Why did you decide to hire somebody for this position instead of the many other roles / jobs you could have hired for? What about this position made your prioritize it over others?
13. What is your reward system? Is it a star system / team-oriented / equity-based/bonus-based/ "attaboy!"-based? Why is that your reward system? What do you guys hope to get out of it, and what actually happens when you put it into practice? What are the positives and the negatives of your reward system? If you could change any one thing, what would it be?
14. What information is shared with the employees (revenues, costs, operating metrics)? Is this an open-book shop, or do you play it closer to the vest? How is information shared? How do I get access to the information I need to be successful in this job?
15. If we have a very successful 2012, what would that look like? What will have happened over the next 12 months? How does this position help achieve that?
16. How does the company / my future boss do performance reviews? How do I make the most of the performance review process to ensure that I'm doing the best I can for the company?
17. What is the rhythm to the work around here? Is there a time of year that it's all hands on deck and we're pulling all-nighters, or is it pretty consistent throughout the year? How about during the week / month? Is it pretty evenly spread throughout the week/month, or are there crunch days?
18. What type of industry/functional/skills-based experience and background are you looking for in the person who will fill this position? What would the "perfect" candidate look like? How do you assess my experience in comparison? What gaps do you see?
19. In my career, I've primarily enjoyed working with big/small/growing/independent/private/public/ family-run companies. If that's the case, how successful will I be at your firm?
20. Who are the heroes at your company? What characteristics do the people who are most celebrated have in common with each other? Conversely, what are the characteristics that are common to the promising people you hired, but who then flamed out and failed or left? As I'm considering whether or not I'd be successful here, how should I think about the experiences of the heroes and of the flame-outs?
21. What can I do to help you (my future boss) get a gold star on your review next year?

 

[Truthy]

Follow-up: even if you don't really have any IT experience or personal projects, surely you can turn some of your homework assignments into "projects" on your resume?

It's just important to show some kind of concrete experience somehow. Because coursework or a degree alone doesn't cut it. Frankly, everyone knows a lot of education is total bs and so hiring managers simply can't assume a degree/coursework actually means much of anything. Even at top universities, lots of kids coast, get their degrees, and hardly learn a damn thing and everyone knows it. The most important thing if you have a degree but not much experience is to show you actually learned something useful and can apply what you learned.

 

[SunTzu]

Absolutely. When I came out of grad school I had a couple of consulting projects that were school work, but they were legit projects that I managed. I turned those into valuable experience on my CV. It's all about how you sell yourself, other than who you know.

Follow-up: even if you don't really have any IT experience or personal projects, surely you can turn some of your homework assignments into "projects" on your resume?

It's just important to show some kind of concrete experience somehow. Because coursework or a degree alone doesn't cut it. Frankly, everyone knows a lot of education is total bs and so hiring managers simply can't assume a degree/coursework actually means much of anything. Even at top universities, lots of kids coast, get their degrees, and hardly learn a damn thing and everyone knows it. The most important thing if you have a degree but not much experience is to show you actually learned something useful and can apply what you learned.

 

[Birdjaguar]

@caketastydelish Please let us know how you interviews go once they are all over.

 

[caketastydelish]

I just applied to tons of places today (far more than I can possibly remember) with the virtual job fair.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Good luck

 

[Ajidica]

On the subject of SQL/Access, it's a skill I've been meaning to become more proficient with after I discovered the little bit of SQL queries I used in college bear little relation to the sort of queries I do for my job. Coronavirus quarantine has given me plenty of time to do things. My mother mentioned this program to me and it reminded me I've been meaning to get on it for the last year or so.
https://alison.com/?fbclid=IwAR0dgGEVm9lMIp_3KtX5GsBcOyCN12bwB2a1pWJplj3QIL1cgM_P6Qypkzg

Do you know of any sort of free/affordable online classes or guidebooks for SQL/Access? (Work uses both databases, but I would prefer SQL. Access and me do not get along.) I don't need a formal certification or anything, merely want to get better at using this tool for work; if only so when the performance review comes around I can talk about how I acquired new skills to help carry out my job.

 

[rah]

If you have to wait for a performance review to talk about your new skills, you're not doing it right.
If you use the skill, any competent manager, will take note and file it away for future projects and reviews.
And yes, I'm aware that many managers are not competent.

 

[Ajidica]

If you have to wait for a performance review to talk about your new skills, you're not doing it right.
If you use the skill, any competent manager, will take note and file it away for future projects and reviews.
And yes, I'm aware that many managers are not competent.

I was more just joking about the performance review stuff, but acquiring new skills is a major plus.

Also, I have a preliminary phone interview scheduled for next week for a contractor position working closely with the state department. I know the person who let me know about it and the person who is leaving it for a different role in the state department. I know very little about how contracting or near-permanent contracting positions work, anything I should know or be sure to ask about?
The position is to provide administrative assistance to departmental leadership (policy and planning bureau, I think) with some analysis on the side. The contract is for 2-3 years, but apparently many people go into State full time after it (I can PM the job description and other information if it would help.)

Also, should I make it through several rounds of interviews and be offered it, what advice can you give me on thinking about accepting it / creating a framework for looking at it? I have a good job in Minnesota that is secure for the foreseeable future and while the pay isn't the greatest, it has good benefits and the work environment is great (good management, no mandatory overtime, great location). In college I wanted to get involved in foreign affairs and I'm getting to the point that short of going to grad school a mid career change would be difficult at best.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm thinking....

 

[rah]

Benefits must be calculated in. I went from consulting (my own company) back to working directly for someone due to the benefits. The hourly charge was slightly less but not so when everything was factored in. Paid time off (vacations and holidays) can offset a lot of salary. Not even adding in medical.

But if it's actually a longer commitment with a chance for a permanent position, it must be considered.
Your biggest salary increases will occur when changing companies, not staying in place. (yes, there are exceptions)

 

[Birdjaguar]

@Ajidica
Would you have to move? New or more expensive housing costs?
Would the new job involve having to travel more/less? To interesting places? Business air miles accrue to you personally.
Remote work?
If you don't own a car, would you have to buy one?

Benefits compared
Retirement plans? 401K?
Bonus plans?

Anyone else involved in your life that should be consulted?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Back to Work: A Q&A

What your boss can— and can’t—make you do

BY LAUREN WEBER

Employers and legislators are turning their attention to the eventual reopening of workplaces, and in some places it is already happening: Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp is letting salons, tattoo parlors, gyms and other businesses open as early as today, while some South Carolina retailers opened this week with restrictions.

But many employees remain nervous about their health, and about how they will make ends meet if they can’t return to work. Meanwhile, many employers are confused by an onslaught of guidelines, rules, executive orders and recommendations from the White House, governors and an array of federal and state agencies.

To help make sense of fast-changing rules and norms, The Wall Street Journal consulted a panel of employment lawyers and other experts. While not all of the policies and guidelines referred to here are hard-and-fast requirements, the following answers to some common questions do reflect best practices, the experts say.

Workplace Safety

My boss is calling me back to the office soon. I’m healthy, but I don’t feel safe and have been working from home just fine. Do I have to go back?

Fear isn’t a legal reason for refusing to work, but there is one exception, says Angela Walker, an Ann Arbor, Mich., attorney who specializes in representing employees in Americans With Disabilities Act cases. If you have a diagnosed mental-health disability, such as severe anxiety, and the pandemic is exacerbating that disability, you can ask to work from home as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA. Otherwise, you can make the case for continuing to work at home, but your boss isn’t obligated to allow it.

I have an underlying health condition. Can my employer force me to return?

The White House guidelines call for a three-phase return to work, with special accommodations for vulnerable individuals until the third phase, at which time the policy envisions a return to “unrestricted staffing of worksites.” Under the guidelines, vulnerable people are the elderly and those “with serious underlying health conditions, including high blood pressure, chronic lung disease, diabetes, obesity, asthma, and those whose immune system is compromised such as by chemotherapy for cancer and other conditions requiring such therapy.” These aren’t orders. “There’s no enforcement power,” says Jennifer Merrigan Fay, an employment-law partner at Goodwin Procter. So if you have asthma, your employer can call you back. “If you have a disability under the ADA, you’re better protected,” she says.

What if I’m pregnant?

Pregnant women aren’t identified as vulnerable in the White House guidelines. But some states, including Massachusetts, New York and California, have laws that obligate employers to consider reasonable accommodations for pregnant employees, Ms. Fay says.

What should I do if my employer isn’t following Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines for a coronavirus-safe workplace?

First, bring up your concerns with your manager. If nothing changes, file a complaint with the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, says Debbie Berkowitz, director of Worker Health and Safety at the National Employment Law Project and a former OSHA chief of staff. You can opt to remain anonymous. The CDC’s guidelines are recommendations, so employers can’t be sanctioned just for violating those. But OSHA can determine whether those employers are violating its general-duty clause. And the agency is required to follow up on complaints, Ms. Berkowitz says.

What if my employer doesn’t provide handwashing breaks or enforce social distancing?

Again, raise your concern with your employer. If nothing changes, file an OSHA complaint. Workers also have some protections to refuse to work if there is a reasonable expectation that workplace conditions could cause serious physical harm or death.

My employer follows safety guidelines, but I worry about exposure on my commute.

If you are able to work from home, ask to do so. If you are considered a vulnerable individual or have an ADA-qualifying disability, you have a better chance of getting permission. Otherwise, you could be required to come to work. If working from home isn’t an option, you may be able to take unpaid leave, but there is no guarantee your job will be available when you feel it is safe to commute. Meanwhile, some employers are considering enhancing transportation benefits, like reimbursing for car services, or offering parking benefits, says Lindsay Burke, co-chair of the employment practice at Covington & Burling LLP.

Legal Protections

I was fired after telling my boss that the safety measures at work were insufficient. What can I do?

What your employer did is illegal, employment lawyers say. Whistleblower laws protect workers who raise concerns about workplace health and safety. Report the action within 30 days to OSHA, and consider finding a lawyer.

If I get Covid-19 because of my job, am I eligible for workers’ comp?

Generally speaking, having an infectious disease such as the flu hasn’t entitled workers to compensation because it is nearly impossible to determine where someone contracted the illness. But several states have come out with rules granting eligibility for health-care workers, first responders and in some cases a broader group of essential workers who fall ill with Covid-19.

Can my employer ask me to waive my right to workers’ comp?

No. Workers can’t be required to sign away this right, Ms. Burke says.

I’m pretty sure I got Covid-19 at work. Can I sue my employer?

If employees believe their company was negligent—for example, by not providing personal protective equipment even if workers were regularly exposed to confirmed Covid-19 cases—there are situations and states where courts might be open to such claims, says Ms. Burke.

Job Security & Pay

If my employer asks for volunteers to return from furlough and I raise my hand, can my employer reject me? I’m over 50 and have an underlying health condition.

If employers make decisions based on their perceptions of who is at higher risk, they are likely engaging in illegal discrimination. “Employers might be motivated to pick the youngest and healthiest people to come back first, but if they do that, there would be legal ramifications,” says Ms. Walker. While the White House guidelines refer to elderly people as vulnerable, they don’t specify at what age someone is “elderly.”

My employer called me back, and schools are still closed. I’ve used up my paid leave and the expanded leave provisions in the Families First legislation. What do I do if I have no one to look after my kids?

You can ask for an unpaid leave of absence, but your employer isn’t obligated to offer that or to hold your job for you if you do take leave, says Ms. Fay.

Privacy

Can my employer take my temperature at work?

The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission has determined that, given the risks associated with Covid-19, this is permissible, Ms. Peters says.

Do I have to report any coronavirus symptoms to my employer?

Yes. “If an employer asks you if you’re symptomatic, which it should, they can require that you report that,” as a workplace- safety matter, but only under pandemic conditions, says Ms. Fay. She recommends that employers require a simple daily health questionnaire, and that workers proactively report any symptoms. The information should be protected as confidential under the ADA.

Can my employer send me home if I’m showing symptoms?

Yes. Your employer has a duty to protect all of its employees.

If a Covid-19 vaccine is developed, can my employer require I get it?

During a pandemic, employers can require vaccinations, the EEOC says. An employee may be entitled to an exemption if the vaccine would interfere with a medical condition or violate that person’s religious beliefs.

Ms. Weber is a reporter for The Wall Street Journal in New York. She can be reached at lauren.weber@wsj.com.