Tomice
Passionate Smart-Ass
One of the few things almost everyone in the civ balance rating thread agreed upon is the weakness of Norway. It's seen as one of the weakest civs currently.
As a great fan of the country and temporary inhabitant, I would like to collect ideas to turn them into a strong, but not broken civ (comparable to Rome or Greece).
To avoid pointless disputes, I would encourage anyone to focus on stuff that may realistically be implemented through one of the early patches. I highly doubt that the devs would give them a new unique building or anything else that results in new artwork. I also doubt that they would be willing to change Norways flavor - they will surely stay Viking/medieval-focused.
What may be more realistic is stuff that only changes the tooltips for their uniques (change the price/strenght of their Berserkers, add a second bonus to Stave Churches,...)
Let's summarize their current traits first:
Comments:
So how to improve Norway? Here is a first suggestion:
As a great fan of the country and temporary inhabitant, I would like to collect ideas to turn them into a strong, but not broken civ (comparable to Rome or Greece).
To avoid pointless disputes, I would encourage anyone to focus on stuff that may realistically be implemented through one of the early patches. I highly doubt that the devs would give them a new unique building or anything else that results in new artwork. I also doubt that they would be willing to change Norways flavor - they will surely stay Viking/medieval-focused.
What may be more realistic is stuff that only changes the tooltips for their uniques (change the price/strenght of their Berserkers, add a second bonus to Stave Churches,...)
Let's summarize their current traits first:
- earlier crossing of ocean tiles
- no additional movement cost for embarking
- naval melee units heal in neutral territory
- Berserker UU (stronger and faster when attacking, weaker when defending)
- [LEADER] Naval melee Units may pillage coatal tiles (includes capturing civilians and taking undefended goody huts)
- [LEADER] Longboat UU (faster on coastal tiles, stronger than galley)
- Coastal start bias.
Comments:
- Theoretically very powerful, but only under certain conditions. Considering that there is no terra mapscript yet, there is rarely much to do on other continents that couldn't be done on your own soil. Due to the district system, settling small islands is rarely worth it, and all larger landmasses have inhabitants that will block your exansion just as much as your direct neighbors. It may be powerful when terrorizing or conquering far away civs that can't retaliate. But other continents and proper victims need to be found first, making the window of opportunity narrow and cost+risk high.
- This is rarely much of a benefit - shorelines are hardly ever so fragmented that you need to embark/disembark often. Very situational and surely no game-changer.
- Useful for long-range exploration and overseas conquest, but melee naval units alone won't be able to achieve much. Should be extended to all naval units IMHO to be a real benefit.
- Just too expensive for what they offer. Sure, they are amazing when actively attacking, but they can't survive much of an counterattack. Swordsmen come earlier, cost half the hammers and less upkeep while being even a bit stronger for defense. Yes, you need iron for swords, but this is Norways UU - compare Berserkers to Legions!
- As many have said, there are less coastal pillaging targets than you might expect. Also, coasts rarely contribute much to the overall economic strenght of your opponents due to the extreme weakness of coastal yields.
- Same Problem as above - early naval dominance is not worth much due to balancing issues.
- Overall, Norway suffers from the core problem of useless coastal yields more than any other civ. Rebalancing of coastal vs. inland cities is a huge issue, but out of the scope of this thread.
So how to improve Norway? Here is a first suggestion:
- Let all their ships repair in neutral waters, not only melee ships.
- Make the Berserker less crappy for defence and adjust its price tag (the offensive bonus should stay for flavor, but the defensive penalty should go).
- Give some additional economic benefit to the stave church. Maybe additional production from nearby forests? Or all forests in this city?
- More food from fishing boats could also be a flavorful advantage, making them capable of settling coastal spots that arent't usually attractive - especially when they have the "God of the Sea" pantheon belief.
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