mercantilism dissalows foreign corps. also thank you for pointing out that the issue of foreign taking a hike under SP. that simply bolsters the'why go for corps in the first place
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Huge inflation
- Thread starter Tatran
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mercantilism dissalows foreign corps. also thank you for pointing out that the issue of foreign taking a hike under SP. that simply bolsters the'why go for corps in the first place
Your SP turtling strategy falls to pieces when someone builds the UN and enforces Environmentalism on everyone. By then the corps will have been founded, your cities will be "vulnerable", and your corporation upkeep will be +25% extra. Good luck telling those AIs that then spam their corps to your cities that their strategy has been faulty.
this assumes you actually pass the resolution. thats a big if. and if that happens have some nukes ready. we are talking about ifs. have a corp or two ready to go
the ecology thing hurts all players equally because the benefit of 15 gold per corp is not even compensation a reasonable for the +25%. with all those extra happy and health resources now on the market theyll be hurt even more!
so established corps will pay +25%+increase in maintenance for all the new consumed resources+the inflation rate(which at the time of enviro might be astronomical). if they can get to you in time it might work but you will still have an upper hand in the meantime.
the ecology thing hurts all players equally because the benefit of 15 gold per corp is not even compensation a reasonable for the +25%. with all those extra happy and health resources now on the market theyll be hurt even more!
so established corps will pay +25%+increase in maintenance for all the new consumed resources+the inflation rate(which at the time of enviro might be astronomical). if they can get to you in time it might work but you will still have an upper hand in the meantime.
this also assumes that the civs that founded corps havent spread them far and wide and in their own backyard.
under what scenario would these corps not already be spread? MC or SP turtling. and why would these civs vote for enviromentalism?
I used exactly the outlined strategy in one game to get Elizabeth to accept my corps, after which I spammed them to her 10+ cities and spent the rest of the game on 100% tech rate with hundreds of 
pouring in every turn.
AIs like Environmentalism because they chop all the forests and hence suffer from health problems.
EDIT: I forgot to add that having vassals makes corporations stronger. You can bribe your vassal to change to Free Market very easily and sell him your goods. The +5 per city does not depend on the level of cities, so even if your vassal is in the ancient age with size 1 cities, they still give you the same benefit. The vassals also benefit since their inflation is presumably much smaller if they're less developed and thus the price for the upkeep is much smaller.
pouring in every turn.AIs like Environmentalism because they chop all the forests and hence suffer from health problems.
EDIT: I forgot to add that having vassals makes corporations stronger. You can bribe your vassal to change to Free Market very easily and sell him your goods. The +5
per city does not depend on the level of cities, so even if your vassal is in the ancient age with size 1 cities, they still give you the same benefit. The vassals also benefit since their inflation is presumably much smaller if they're less developed and thus the price for the upkeep is much smaller.When I saw maintenance costs in a screen shot a while ago, I automatically knew that corporations would have no basis in reality. And I'm right. It seems that state property is always the strongest in civ (at least the last 2 civ games) and free market is crappy compared to it.
I used exactly the outlined strategy in one game to get Elizabeth to accept my corps, after which I spammed them to her 10+ cities and spent the rest of the game on 100% tech rate with hundreds of
AIs like Environmentalism because they chop all the forests and hence suffer from health problems.
Seems like AI's not putting things in perspective. Pass Enviromentalism so you can get more health and then bleed to death by corporate invasion.
you get 15 gold per city, so she must of had a lot of cities, and no AI was ballsy enough to put corps to you? also, shouldnt they be? also, did you found a lot of corps? is that the best way to use GP in a strategy that hinges on turtling SP players and UN votes?
You might want to take Economics 101. The amount of times money changes hands grows the economy as a whole and increases the taxes governments earn. This is why goverments, both national and local, frequently give subsidies to corporations to set up shop in their area. The jobs and sales created and the corresponding taxes more than makes up for the subsidies and loans they give.
sounds pretty gay.
Apparently the way to go is run a civic that doesn't allow them the computer to spread their corps to your cities, but found one corp and spread it to the computer's cities.
If I have a lot of seafood and little mining stuff, what is the best one to found? Found the corps that I have excess resources of or little resources, so that price would be higher?
??
Apparently the way to go is run a civic that doesn't allow them the computer to spread their corps to your cities, but found one corp and spread it to the computer's cities.
If I have a lot of seafood and little mining stuff, what is the best one to found? Found the corps that I have excess resources of or little resources, so that price would be higher?
??
EDIT: I forgot to add that having vassals makes corporations stronger. You can bribe your vassal to change to Free Market very easily and sell him your goods. The +5
seems like that is what you have to do, but there are obvious drawbacks.
cripple them too much and you wind up paying for their protection. (cant afford units)
in fact their upkeep wouldnt be that much smaller because the inflation is still mulitplying their total maintenance plus the total maintanence and their output is also smaller.
to collect the 5 gpt, you must run anything but SP and each has their drawback.
obvious diplomatic penalties for having vassals.
Also, under a SP turtling strategy, you should be flooding the market with resources to bury the AI. having vassals send you money for resources they can use for corps, while you run SP could also work. you just suffer the diplo penalties.
So, given how negative corporations are (particularily foreign ones) in BtS, how strong State Property is, the inclusion of Mao and Stalin (but no Hitler,) and how diplomatically its often advantageous to have no state religion, we can thus conclude that Firaxis is full of godless commies. 
DrJambo
Crash-test dummy
but then I'll also earn more through population increases in my cities, the growth of cottages and cities building other economic improvements.mrt144 said:
The benefit of that +18
and +3 
that I'm generating at the moment, as well as the income from the headquarters, should not be overlooked. I should expect to pay something towards that. It's fairly major during the late game.
Oh don't get me wrong, this is also what I did. I do have a plan, simply the fact that I ran enough cottages to pay for them, got the tech first and saved my GP shows that I can and did plan.
I also DID spread the corporation abroad to pay for them and I was happy running science at 50% then one day BAM! the egyptian went state property and suddenly I could just run science at 10%.
Don't tell me that the designers intended this because I simply won't believe them unless a designer comes and says this.
I have a bit more faith in the civ 4 designers than that.
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Well, I'm not yet convinced on this (yet).
Here's the details of my current game:
I'm the HRE
Large map
Epic speed
It's 1956
I've founded Creative Corporations
It's in 7 of my 19 cities
(These were selected based on where I thought I needed the
Here's my finances in terms of costs:
Unit costs 99
Unit supply 3
City Maintenance 92
Civics 101
Inflation 175% x 295 = 512
Of the 92 city maintenance:
Distance to capital 27
No. of cities 36
Colony 1
Corporations 28
I have courthouses in ALL my corporation cities (-75% for HRE) and I'm running Free Market.
I'm able to running 50 %and the
Granted I probably don't need to, and indeed shouldn't, expand the corporation too much, but isn't that to be expected? The benefits are specific and as I see it, the corporation should only be placed in the most appropriate cities; not every city, and certainly not any city without a courthouse. I also founded the corporation in my most profitable city, one with the specific religion building and all basic economic improvements (alas no Wall Street unfortunately).
So, what's the deal? Seems ok to me for the moment - a fine balance which can easily be lost unless you're extremely careful. As to how the AI deals with the fine balance, God only knows.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5722582&postcount=35
BTW I think/hope that the 3 posts are merged because writing the same things in 3 topics are rather pointless and makes me feel like a spammer
Seems like AI's not putting things in perspective. Pass Enviromentalism so you can get more health and then bleed to death by corporate invasion.
you get 15 gold per city, so she must of had a lot of cities, and no AI was ballsy enough to put corps to you? also, shouldnt they be? also, did you found a lot of corps? is that the best way to use GP in a strategy that hinges on turtling SP players and UN votes?
You forget that market, grocer, bank, and Wall Street all multiply
. That means 45 gold per city. I had three corps, the other AIs had a few but they were on the other continent and we didn't have OBs with any of them (Apostolic Palace in action).Of course all this takes lots of gold to set up in the first place and the game only runs for a limited time. If you're going to win by domination in 1900 it's no point teching to the corps and using GPs to found them. I agree FM could be made more powerful and SP nerfed a bit. But I don't agree that SP is the end-all-be-all economic civic.
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Remember, DrJambo, if you didn't have the HRE unique courthouse, you would be paying twice as much. Instead of 11.4 gold for 3 hammers and 18 culture, you'd be paying 22.8 for the same amount. (because 50% is twice 25%). Would that be worthwhile?
eh, no one is saying that. I think they were just overly careful in not making corporations too powerful.
perhaps you need to take econ 101.
you're high on the laffer curve!
the amount of tax revenue might increase but the net effect is a loss of money because subsidies are much larger than expected income (this is because of the political climate of employment and the competition between states, cities, etc) money exchange is neither 100% efficent nor is all profit or aggregate business spent in the local or state economy.
Yes exactly - in this case my cost of 2500 would be 1250 and I could happily run 80% science as HRE, I made a reply to him here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5722582&postcount=35
Nikis-Knight
Deity
regarding "econ 101" arguement: Well, his overall point is good--more commerce/trade = better economy. The reason subsidies are bad is because if a buisness can't pay for itself (and, maybe, isn't some vital service) it isn't being run well or else isn't needed in the economy, and so should go out of business or change in some fundamental way.
Still, cities do benefit, generally, from having business operate in them, and that is why cities often do financially questionable or even immoral things to get them to move in, rather than out as the BtS model may indicate.
Still, cities do benefit, generally, from having business operate in them, and that is why cities often do financially questionable or even immoral things to get them to move in, rather than out as the BtS model may indicate.
DrJambo
Crash-test dummy
Oh I agree, HRE isn't exactly the best example. They were selected randomly and my post was simply highlighting the current state in my present game. I said I wasn't convinced "(yet)" which is not to say that I won't be convinced when I try a different civ.
As a constructive way to look at this, what would people do to remedy the perceived situation?
1. Lower the rate of inflation?
OR
2. Lower corporation maintenance?
And by what value?
perhaps you need to take econ 101.
you're high on the laffer curve!
the amount of tax revenue might increase but the net effect is a loss of money because subsidies are much larger than expected income (this is because of the political climate of employment and the competition between states, cities, etc) money exchange is neither 100% efficent nor is all profit or aggregate business spent in the local or state economy.
I dislike subsidies. At least we can agree that a corporation setting up shop without the use of subsidies does generate income on the place it is set up. The way corporations are implemented in the game sounds like a complete opposite of how they work in real life.
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