Humankind Game by Amplitude

[Casworon]

Dll modding is standard for endless titles, often on release. So i would be super surprised if 'Humankind' didn't have it

 

[Ceydezed]

What do you guys think of tactical combat? For me its one of the main reason i never really could enjoy games as Endless Legends as much as civ, because the combats take such an important part of the games. Recently i played a bit of AoW Planetfall, which is decent, but also very much oriented towards combat.
I really enjoy the combats in Civ, that are quick but still - in my opinion - tactical enough. Having to go to a small mini map spending 10 minutes for one single fight, having half of the competences and tech being about enhancement for your military seems like it's taking away the pleasure of exploration or empire building.
If it's a 4X it should be the same amount of explo, exploitation, extermination and expansion - not half of extermination and half of the 3 others combined.

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Tactical combat has been one of my most wanted additions to Civ VII, so I’m extremely excited to hear it’ll be implemented in Humankind.

 

[Gedemon]

Dll modding is standard for endless titles, often on release. So i would be super surprised if 'Humankind' didn't have it

I'm not familiar with the endless series, and can't find a lot of data on the subject.

I've just seen a reference to a c# module specific to AI coding added after release (which is better than nothing! ), XML editing to change a lot values and tools for (re)skins. IDK about 3d models.

But I can't find anything about changing the core gameplay (ie not just changing existing values for existing formulas, but changing the formulas themselves and adding new ones for new features)

 

[Weraptor]

Have you checked Endless Legend community patch?

 

[KayAU]

I'm excited for this one, and happy to see some competition for Civ. Endless Legend didn't quite do it for me, but Amplitude makes high quality games, and I think a historical setting will work well for them.

As for tactical battles: yes, please. Tactical battles are what it will take to make me enjoy the military aspect of a 4x. I love the systems in games like Fallen Enchantress and Age of Wonders 3, but even a very simple system like in the old game Conquest of the New World, which took place on a simple 3x6 grid, lifts the game experience in my opinion. It elegantly solves the 1 UPT versus "stacks of doom" problem, by letting units form armies and move effectively on the world map, while moving and acting individually on the tactical map. It increases the tactical depth of the game vastly, and brings elements like army composition and unit synergies to the forefront. It allows for a much more involved system for generals, which can have perks modifying how many units they are able to control (i.e. how big their armies can be), and how different types of units perform while commanded by the general.

...and of course, if you don't want to do the tactical combat, there will probably be an autoresolve button. But even if you hit autoresolve each time, it will be a more interesting system thanks to being able to compose armies.

 

[qadams]

What do you guys think of tactical combat? For me its one of the main reason i never really could enjoy games as Endless Legends as much as civ, because the combats take such an important part of the games. I really enjoy the combats in Civ, that are quick but still - in my opinion - tactical enough. Having to go to a small mini map spending 10 minutes for one single fight, having half of the competences and tech being about enhancement for your military seems like it's taking away the pleasure of exploration or empire building.

If it's a 4X it should be the same amount of explo, exploitation, extermination and expansion - not half of extermination and half of the 3 others combined.

I agree with this. In fact, as I've said before, I would like to see more focus on exploration, my favorite part of a 4X game. If Humankind can provide that, I would definitely be sold.

 

[Victoria]

I agree with this. In fact, as I've said before, I would like to see more focus on exploration, my favorite part of a 4X game. If Humankind can provide that, I would definitely be sold.

I am in this camp also, minimaps take you away from the continuity of the main map but with the world congress and denounce/trade/agenda pop ups happening all the time it is pretty broken anyway, on the plus side you are now just moving armies on the map which is easier and takes away some of the scaling issues as well as making AI combat more proficient.
So I guess I am really ambivalent.

 

[Gedemon]

Have you checked Endless Legend community patch?

Thanks for the pointer, seems they do have some source access, so that's good news.

 

[S1AL]

Thanks for the pointer, seems they do have some source access, so that's good news.

My brief review of the ES2 files indicates partial access - there's even a specific folder entitled "Public" for Modders. Based on the available mods, that sounds about right.

 

[acluewithout]

I just watched the reveal trailer for Sega's upcoming 4X strategy game Humankind.

Well, that came out of nowhere.

I guess Humanking looks … interesting. It looks good...ish.

Sigh. I'm sure I can find a few extra dollars for this when it comes out, if only just to support 4x games generally.

But, sorry, really not that interested. I really think Civ VI has pretty much nailed the "history as boardgame" thing, and I’m not sure I’m really all that interested in playing a clone of that or a game that just further tweaks the board formula[0].

Hmm. Well. From the various articles, it sounds like a bit of a passion project, which is no bad thing. I wish them luck.

Some other random thoughts, for what they’re worth:

• I really don't agree with people saying Civ is "stale" or that FXS is taking players for granted or “needs” serious competition (at least beyond just a general "competition is [usually] good" for any market). Yup, Civ VI is an iterative refinement of what has come before, but I honestly think that’s a reasonable thing for FXS to pursue. The Civ franchise has some great core game ideas / loops, and there's a lot to be said for having the best version you can of that game on the market (which is what Civ VI is clearly trying to be). Anyway. That said, I'm happy to see another 4x in the market (feels like there's quite a lot coming out lately), and equally happy for someone to try something new even if only by degrees.
  
  
• As for Humankind specifically, I’m not super excited about choosing sort of “generic” factions, and then every 25 turns mashing them up with another “faction”’s set of abilities. That doesn't actually feel any more historical to me than what Civ does. Overall, I think Civ VI’s approach of playing a specific Civ and taking that Civ forward is a stronger design, because you start with a clearer sense of who your faction “is” and are so more invested in that faction (although, yeah, it gets a bit weird when you’re playing Amercia or Australia in the ancient era for example). [1]
  
  
• I'm really not a fan of the "battle map" approach to combat, and that would likely put me off this game even assuming I’d have room for two “historical boardgame” games in my life (…I’m not even convinced I have enough spare room for one historical board game in my life… life is way, way too busy). I get that many people do like this approach, and more power to those people, but I think the battlemap approach pulls you out of the game and is distracting. It also moves the game back to stacks of doom to some extent, and regardless of whether the AI finds that easier it’s just not appealing to me. I still much prefer Civ VI's approach of having the exploring, building and fighting all happen on the same map.
  
  
• I'm guessing Humankind will also have something like districts, given Endless Legends had districts and this is getting made by the same people. For me at least, the lack of districts is what ultimately puts me off Civ IV and V and many other 4x games.

TLDR; looks interesting, I’ll likely buy it, but will probably stick with Civ VI which I think is actually pretty good overall and just keeps getting better.

...And yet I also feel sad. I've been a Civ - fan for so long, I really wish I was looking forward to hearing more about the development of the Civ franchise. And following Humankind is just going to continually remind me of that.

I'm really quite sorry to hear that.

I keep [selfishly] hoping a patch or something will come out, and you'll be back on the Forums saying "Huzzah! At last! Civ is great again!" But, sadly, that doesn't seem to have happened.

It really sucks when the thing you want comes along, and is not the thing you want, and worse is actually a really super-rubbishy mockery of the thing you wanted[2].

***​

[0] I bought EUIV complete in the Steam Sales, and am excited about getting into that when I have some time (which, admittedly, will probably never happen for me). As I’ve said, I think Civ VI has basically nailed the "history as boardgame" thing, and totally love that. EUIV seems a really different approach - history as simulation / grand strategy - and I'd like to spend time exploring that approach too. I’d also like to get into BattleTech (as discussed) and or Dwarf Fortress. So, yeah, Humankind is gonna struggle to get on my priority list – sorry.

[1] I think where Civ VI misses out is not having something like Social Polices that let you take your Civ / faction into particular cultural directions – e.g. having early game “Nomadic” or “Agricultural” social policies, then later on policies around “enlightenment” or “colonization” or “religion”, and then later still into ideologies or other big ideas. Having a separate Culture Tree was a great idea for Civ, but the downside is literally everyone develops the same cultural institutions except for maybe Governments and other Culture Leaf Techs. I like the shared culture tree, I really do, but yeah, Civ needs a mechanism for each faction to also get a few unique cultural institutions too and not just from its faction abilities.

[2] Looking at you 2019 Hellboy. And second Pacific Rim movie. ... And every John Hughes movie after Some Kind of Wonderful. ... And looking really hard at you one and only Phantom movie with Billy Zane in it. Honestly. How on earth did that movie get screwed up? There was a like a bunch of jungle desert adventure period movies made around then and they all bombed except for the Mummy. Why did the Mummy get to be good and the Phantom was a bomb? I mean, the Phantom is flat out best and first super hero ever. I mean, technically, he's not the first superhero, because he's not actually a superhero, but he's like the original proto-super hero. After him it's Superman, and Batman and dues with underwear on the outside and laser-beams all the way down. Did you know Billy Zane was like a massive Phantom Phan, and they said "Hey Billy! Put on this Latex Muscle Suit and be the Phantom", and Billy Zane was all "Man. I'm so freaking into the Phantom. I'm totes being the Phantom, cause he's awesome like if you gave Tarzan Guns and a Bat-cave and crossed that with Highlander. But I am not wearing no Michael Keaton plastic muscle suit dudes. I'm gonna work out like Henry Rollins crossed with 2010 Hugh Jackman Only Eats Egg Whites Wolverine with big ass weights and pilates and stuff and more pilates and get fricken RIPPED so I actually look like the Phantom" and then he did and he did. And then they got the horse and the wolf right and they went the whole period thing. And then basically everything else was just a disaster. And then the Phantom took his mask off which is just terrible (and I think technically means everyone that sees that movie is going to die … although, you know, I guess we're all going to die), and really they should have just Listened to Their Friend Billy Zane. He's a Cool Dude. … Sigh. Wheze. Well, at least we got that one Judge Dredd movie. You know. The second one. Not the dumpster fire first one.

[3] I’m sorry – I’m not very good at writing posts that don’t turn into walls of text. I think I also probably need to step away from the cultural references rolodex for a while.

 

[Gedemon]

My brief review of the ES2 files indicates partial access - there's even a specific folder entitled "Public" for Modders. Based on the available mods, that sounds about right.

I mean there are 3 DLL in the mod, and their code is in the Github repository for the mod

 

[Elhoim]

It appears that they use a separate tactical map for combat, based on the Polygon article, which probably means stacks of doom on the main map and 1UPT on the tactical map. Best of both worlds, really.

BTW, it's not a separate map, it's just a journalist not knowing what's he's talking about. In the screenshot I posted it clearly shows it's like in Endless Legends, in which the combat happens on a limited part of the strategic map. Which is even better!

 

[ButtBillionaire]

This looks good, but I'll admit, the inclusion of a "Viking" civ honestly makes me go a little "ugh," on account of that no single Viking culture existed (frankly, there was no single "Norse" culture or ethnic group either), and because I fear it'll feed into the myth/idea that there was. Maybe I shouldn't be cross with blobcivs in a game that isn't Civ, and especially in a new game where any historical culture can evolve into any other when it shouldn't be possible, but still.

If every game starts out with your first options of evolving being the first Middle Eastern civilisations, I wonder if it'll be possible to evolve into Native Americans, both North and South, and how it can be done.

 

[Medopu]

It's made by amplitude studios, who made endless space and endless legend right?
I was always very intrigued by endless legends. The reason i avoided it is that sci-fi and fantasy genre completely turns me off. But this is something i absolutely love to see.
It's a big announcement and firaxis will have to respond with their own new stuff, which is great as well.

This whole thing brings back memories to simcity and how that game used to dominate the citybuilding genre. Their last game was not a big success. But then Cities skylines came. Completely different studio, that previously worked on a similar game and decided they want to play with the big kids and posed a big challenge to the long-standing champion simcity.

Not long after CitiesSkylines successfully launched, maxis closed the studios forever. Lets just hope the same fate doesnt happen to firaxis.

However i still love civilization

 

[LastSword]

Isn't Civ VI just a clone?

I am very happy that this game is in development, yet I am sceptical if it so innovative. Armies' unspooling is taken from their previous games and I read it is getting tedious very quick (and AI still is medicore at best), though ciV combat style is far from perfect so any takes on this subject is welcome. And I personally leaning towards one huge battle instead of countless clicking.

And Select from variety... sounds cheap, like I should care that my civ changed aesthetics (it may be even counter-productive to develop story-bond), and gameplay-wise it is just glorified social policy tree, which... I would very much prefer from "Civ Abilities". "Civ Abilities" in my opinion showed to be an outdated concept (imho it is even more visible in civ 6 due to those walls of text) and I truely wanted to mod them out by replacing with randomly generated PoE-like trees - developing through ages.
So it all depends on execution here (I except a set of UU/UB/UA each era), the challenge is to make those choices interesting and the game dynamic enough to push players out of comfort zones.

In general I hope for the sake of "innovation" it is not a clone of their previous games with Historical Skin. Though all this innovation thing might be a journalist's fantasy.

Aesthetically looks a bit better than civ 6, still not a fan of cities grabbing so many tiles.
Sigh, I hate making animals "barbarians"...

Anyway, looking forward to see AI, map sizes, turn times, and other more important factors.

Thread title is misleading/false and I think something like "Sega announced 4X game Humankind" would be better.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

It appears that they use a separate tactical map for combat, based on the Polygon article, which probably means stacks of doom on the main map and 1UPT on the tactical map. Best of both worlds, really.

It is similar to that, but their combat is also not quite that. I would suggest checking out Endless Legend combat on youtube as it likely will be very similar (you can already see the marks of their Endless series all over this, from map style to the symbols used for resources, and it isn't like they are going to reinvent the wheel for this one game). Their Endless series all have a different combat system (one I personally find more fiddly than needed), but since there are a ton of Endless videos out there you may want to check it out to get a good idea of where this one is starting from at least.

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

I am interested to see how Humankind turns out. While I really like the Civ franchise, competition is good and I'm curious to see what Amplitude adds to the historic civ sub-genre.

 

[j51]

For people worried about the tactical combat on a sectioned-off-map aspect: In Endless Legend you can turn that off and just let the computer calculate the outcomes of two armies clashing. Usually this gives the AI a little buff. I haven't played Endless Space 2, so I don't know if you can turn it off in that.

I've been hoping for years that Amplitude would make a historical game to compete with Civ and wondered what it would look like. For me Endless Legend made some amazing and needed improvements to the 4X formula, and I was happy to see some of them implemented in Civ 6. Now it looks like the competition is fully on!

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

This looks good, but I'll admit, the inclusion of a "Viking" civ honestly makes me go a little "ugh," on account of that no single Viking culture existed (frankly, there was no single "Norse" culture or ethnic group either), and because I fear it'll feed into the myth/idea that there was. Maybe I shouldn't be cross with blobcivs in a game that isn't Civ, and especially in a new game where any historical culture can evolve into any other when it shouldn't be possible, but still.

If every game starts out with your first options of evolving being the first Middle Eastern civilisations, I wonder if it'll be possible to evolve into Native Americans, both North and South, and how it can be done.

I agree wholeheartedly about being specific amongst nordic peoples. Viking was an occupation, after all. But since Civ only overcame that flaw in Civ V, I am willing to overlook it to an extent.