I can’t believe Spain is not in!

[Chopin]

The 6 European Civs are spread like this:
5 in Western Europe, 1 in Eastern Europe.

This is bias to west europe. I prefer European civ spread like this:
3 in Western Europe, 2 in Eastern Europe

The person who said to me "Oceania 0" is silly: Oceania is not Europe.

 

[Chalks]

Not to me. 6 out of 18 is a small share given Europe's actual impact on world history. The game is about the history of the world.

Well, that's pretty easy to say as long as your definition of "the world" is "the west". I'd like to know how much influence you think western european history has had on the 4 billion people living in Asia.

 

[Dale]

The 6 European Civs are spread like this:
5 in Western Europe, 1 in Eastern Europe.

This is bias to west europe. I prefer European civ spread like this:
3 in Western Europe, 2 in Eastern Europe

The person who said to me "Oceania 0" is silly: Oceania is not Europe.

I never said it was Europe.

But the point stands, stop complaining about Eastern Europe being under-represented when Oceania has never been represented in any Civ game. Eastern Europe has always been represented in every version of Civ.

 

[alfon]

Germany - the third reich is more than enough qualification there. A nation that almost dominated all of Europe in comparatively recent times, permanently changing the course of global history and influencing the evolution every country in Europe and beyond. There is absolutely no way Spain can even dream of competing with the influence this country has had.

Russia - including the soviet empire, this nation was instrumental in the defeat of the Nazis and in the recent past had the potential to start the biggest and most devastating war the planet has ever seen. A true super power that Spain could not raise a candle to if its life depended on it.



Yeah, I can tell. Do they teach you history at school? Seriously. I was not aware that such astonishing nationalist tunnel vision still existed anywhere in modern Europe. Are you sure Franco isn't still in charge over there, filling your minds with propaganda?

This post is astonishing, even the OP had enough wits to avoid implying that Spain is more influential than any of the confirmed civilizations.

What in the world is wrong with you, I'll answer to some of your crap after I say my opinion about the whole thing.

Spain is definitely one of the most important civilizations in history. Top 18 for sure. However, Firaxis wants to add geographical flavor and add other civilizations (that are not as important) such as Songhai. I dont really care if this happens, there just isn't enough space for Spain and Im ok with that (being Spanish myself.)

However, Chalks, you're just making a stupid statement. They do teach history in our country and the educational system is more advanced (just my opinion, having lived in both countries) I got into a couple of arguments with my history teacher. For example, she thought that Magellan, was the first one to travel round the world even though he died halfway. I can assure you that Spain is not a nationalistic country. We dont have to say the pledge of alliance everyday at our school for example.

Seriously, im not disagreeing with you about your opinion, but could you stop saying nonsense when you probably havent lived in my country (correct me if im wrong)

 

[Chalks]

The 6 European Civs are spread like this:
5 in Western Europe, 1 in Eastern Europe.

This is bias to west europe. I prefer European civ spread like this:
3 in Western Europe, 2 in Eastern Europe

The person who said to me "Oceania 0" is silly: Oceania is not Europe.

Eastern Europe is under represented because the history of Eastern Europe can be boiled down to "Russia happened" for the purposes of this game.

It's a shame that Oceania has absolutely no representation (which is one of the reasons I've actually warmed to the idea of the 18th civ being a native Oceanic civ). I feel that they have at least as much a claim to a slot as native American civilizations.

 

[Chopin]

I say that Western Europe is more represented than Eastern Europe because of west-europe-bias. You say to me "Oceania 0 fixed". What is your point???

This is better spread of Europe + Oceania civs:
West Europe 3
East Europe 2
Oceania 1

 

[Chalks]

Spain is definitely one of the most important civilizations in history. Top 18 for sure. However, Firaxis wants to add geographical flavor and add other civilizations (that are not as important) such as Songhai. I dont really care if this happens, there just isn't enough space for Spain and Im ok with that (being Spanish myself.)

You need to take a second to catch up on the thread so that you can realise that Civilization is not the top 18 historical civilizations. I literally said this for the third time a few replies ago.

Spain is not in the top 6 European civilizations. World wide significance does not matter in this context.

They do teach history in our country

I was not actually being serious when I said that.

 

[kivanc]

ok, this will be my 1st post on this thread so please let me start with a

"The dude is not IN. Leave a message after the beep"
I can't believe the dude is not IN.

anyway, i agree spain should be IN.
i also believe saying "Jon is a history major" is only marketing. Even if he knew sth about history, that would not change much. I think Sid should be deciding which civ to be IN. Such decisions are very important and cannot be left for new guys' decision. it effects sales even more than some game features maybe.

 

[kivanc]

and by the way guys, what is this addiction to ask the game represent all regions equally?

i don't think indonesian guys will be satisfied when they see khmers/siam in the game. so just forget about it. you can't satisfy everybody.
just put most the "top" nations in the game, that's the way firaxis should do. so again, spain should be IN.

 

[alfon]

Spain's "strong historical ties" within the last 500 years are a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of modern human development and proliferation. As a matter of fact, before the 15th century the iberian peninsula was run-over so many times, by so many cultures, its historical identification should be more like "europe's whipping boy".

Ahh, it may have been conquered many times, but you cant denny the fact that it was never fully conquered. Also, it is the only civilization that has fought back the Muslims after they have settled in their territory.

 

[Warrior7]

Ok I have to say something in this thread.

Excuse me if I'm not writing perfect

-----------------------

It's understandable that people want to have his own country in the Game. OK.
I'm from Spain so.. I want Spain to be in the Game. OK

I believe that Spain deserve a place in Civ V. Yes.
But I know that all the things I want are not always possible.

In my case, I do believe that a Civilization must be a country that in time have done something not done until them or something totally different to what have existed. I mean military, cultural, science.. or anything. By this I mean.

Greece&(Macedonia), Rome, Egypt, India, China. As must be civilizations.

Second level for, England, France, Portugal, Spain, Arabia(then Ottomans).

Third Level for Russia, Germany, Usa.

Another Level, non EuroMediterannean civilizations. Aztecs, Inca, Maya, Japan.

At last It would be great, Babylon, Sumeria, Persia...

-------------------------------

Now as spanish I will try to show you why I do believe that Spain must be in the game.

Isabella, took a country with a Civil War, did succesfully conquered the last muslim kingdom of the Iberian Peninsula, married with Fernando of the Crown of Aragon (and made the first Idea of an united Spain before the Visigoths and arabs.

From a size of this.



Spain reached this...



From Colon's arrive to America in 1492, to 1975 Spain had territories in other Continents (not counting here Canary Islands).

Someone has been saying that Spain conquered America as Stalin or Hitler did where they went...

How many native americans are in Spanish conquered America and how many are in other places? I know that because of diseases, many and many native died in epidemic. But believe me, we have been the one who have mixed most with natives than other colonizators that killed most of natives.

Isabella was not a mass murderer, she was always trying to protect the native from the abuse of spanish conquerors, you must read her last wishes to know what I'm talking about.

Spanish is the third language spoken in the world and rising... the second in native therms. Spain ruled the world maybe just a century and a half but our legacy have been vast.


At the same time Spain had territories in America, Asia, Africa, Europe, fought against France, England, Holand, also anhiliated Ottomans in Lepanto's Battle.

We can say that Spain was fighting against is own extension.

How many empires would have last as the main force against ALL as Spain did?
Even Hitler lasted less than ten years...

I hope you liked xD

 

[Dale]

and by the way guys, what is this addiction to ask the game represent all regions equally?

i don't think indonesian guys will be satisfied when they see khmers/siam in the game. so just forget about it. you can't satisfy everybody.
just put most the "top" nations in the game, that's the way firaxis should do. so again, spain should be IN.

Sorry, but you need to catch up with the entire thread. The contention is three-fold:

- There are more important European Civs than Spain.
- Europe on a World map already is way too crowded with 6 Civs.
- Civilization the game represent WORLD history not European history, thus should at least represent all regions of the world.

 

[Dale]

Also, it is the only civilization that has fought back the Muslims after they have settled in their territory.

That's if you ignore all of Eastern Europe (including Poland!), most of southern Russia, Israel, Greece, Genoa, Venice, Knights of St John, Siam, China, Central Africa, and probably a few others.

 

[kivanc]

Sorry, but you need to catch up with the entire thread. The contention is three-fold:

- There are more important European Civs than Spain.
- Europe on a World map already is way too crowded with 6 Civs.
- Civilization the game represent WORLD history not European history, thus should at least represent all regions of the world.

sorry, i couldn't read all the thread. if i start reading all the threads i want to comment, i cannot comment on any. the forum is very active nowadays.

as i said, you can never satisfy every gamer by means of which civ to add. so civ makes this; picks some "always IN" civs and 1/2more civs as surprises.

so the regions that you considered "must be represented as well" will be represented but not in every game. civ4 had khmers but this doesn't guarantee a south-east asian/polynesian civ will be IN in each publish.

 

[alfon]

That's if you ignore all of Eastern Europe (including Poland!), most of southern Russia, Israel, Greece, Genoa, Venice, Knights of St John, Siam, China, Central Africa, and probably a few others.

I stand corrected, even though they didnt settle in those territories nearly as much time as in Spain

 

[Dale]

sorry, i couldn't read all the thread. if i start reading all the threads i want to comment, i cannot comment on any. the forum is very active nowadays.

That's why I provided a summary for you. To get you up to speed.

so the regions that you considered "must be represented as well" will be represented but not in every game. civ4 had khmers but this doesn't guarantee a south-east asian/polynesian civ will be IN in each publish.

There's many more Oceanic Civs than just Polynesia. They were just one.

 

[Iván de España]

Spain will be in becuase they would sell more games in Europe and South America.

 

[Chalks]

Spain will be in becuase they would sell more games in Europe and South America.

Haven't we pretty much confirmed that Spain isn't in by now?

 

[EMT]

Haven't we pretty much confirmed that Spain isn't in by now?

More importantly, most Spanish colonies either range from mixed feelings(Argentina) to ouright hate(Bolivia). Spain isn't going to win the hearts and minds as you presume.

 

[Giordano Léonce]

Ok I have to say something in this thread.

Excuse me if I'm not writing perfect

-----------------------

It's understandable that people want to have his own country in the Game. OK.
I'm from Spain so.. I want Spain to be in the Game. OK

I believe that Spain deserve a place in Civ V. Yes.
But I know that all the things I want are not always possible.

In my case, I do believe that a Civilization must be a country that in time have done something not done until them or something totally different to what have existed. I mean military, cultural, science.. or anything. By this I mean.

Greece&(Macedonia), Rome, Egypt, India, China. As must be civilizations.

Second level for, England, France, Portugal, Spain, Arabia(then Ottomans).

Third Level for Russia, Germany, Usa.

Another Level, non EuroMediterannean civilizations. Aztecs, Inca, Maya, Japan.

At last It would be great, Babylon, Sumeria, Persia...

-------------------------------

Now as spanish I will try to show you why I do believe that Spain must be in the game.

Isabella, took a country with a Civil War, did succesfully conquered the last muslim kingdom of the Iberian Peninsula, married with Fernando of the Crown of Aragon (and made the first Idea of an united Spain before the Visigoths and arabs.

From a size of this.



Spain reached this...



From Colon's arrive to America in 1492, to 1975 Spain had territories in other Continents (not counting here Canary Islands).

Someone has been saying that Spain conquered America as Stalin or Hitler did where they went...

How many native americans are in Spanish conquered America and how many are in other places? I know that because of diseases, many and many native died in epidemic. But believe me, we have been the one who have mixed most with natives than other colonizators that killed most of natives.

Isabella was not a mass murderer, she was always trying to protect the native from the abuse of spanish conquerors, you must read her last wishes to know what I'm talking about.

Spanish is the third language spoken in the world and rising... the second in native therms. Spain ruled the world maybe just a century and a half but our legacy have been vast.


At the same time Spain had territories in America, Asia, Africa, Europe, fought against France, England, Holand, also anhiliated Ottomans in Lepanto's Battle.

We can say that Spain was fighting against is own extension.

How many empires would have last as the main force against ALL as Spain did?
Even Hitler lasted less than ten years...

I hope you liked xD

Thank you, warrior7. Excellent post.

@ENT: you have addressed me throwning around the word "nationalist" more than once. Just for you to know, I was not born in Spain and I do not have Spanish nationality. You anti-Spain bias is so strong that you believe that anyone who wants to play as Spain must be a Spanish nationalist. I will not reply to your other irrelevant comments about "Spanish barbarity". Chalks and others have already replied to my satisfaction.