I love the Civilization series... and yet, I suck at it.

[Bolgard]

Confession time.

I've played Civ III for years, and I'm completely addicted to Civ IV now, but to be perfectly honest, I'm a very poor player. Perhaps I like punishment. I'm so bad that I can't even handle the standard difficulty, and couldn't in Civ III, so I think this is long overdue: I need to go back to Civ School.

I'm not so bad that I can't win on Settler or Chieftan, thank God - but even Warlord gives me problems. I either tend to become underdeveloped if I place an emphasis on military expansion, or I end up with a well-developing country, but become a target of oppertunity and constantly get attacked because my military is lagging behind.

Trying to decypher and understand the new AI behavours makes it all the more challenging. I'm up for a challenge, don't get me wrong, but I think I need to work on the fundamentals. Since there's so much area to cover in this kind of topic, let me start with a few questions.

And let's assume that we're dealing with the relatively easy Warlord difficulty. I'm trying to work my way up.

1) What's a good balance between expansion and military?

2) What's a reasonable score to expect after the first few hours relative to the AI?

3) Is it better to focus on developing wonders right off the bat, or to work on a broad military (of course I'm sure there are no hard and fast rules).


I suppose all I'm looking for is wisdom from people who ostensably "know what they're doing" and are willing to tutor a Civ Fanatic who needs to hit the books again.

Thanks.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Confession time.

I've played Civ III for years, and I'm completely addicted to Civ IV now, but to be perfectly honest, I'm a very poor player. Perhaps I like punishment. I'm so bad that I can't even handle the standard difficulty, and couldn't in Civ III, so I think this is long overdue: I need to go back to Civ School.

I'm not so bad that I can't win on Settler or Chieftan, thank God - but even Warlord gives me problems. I either tend to become underdeveloped if I place an emphasis on military expansion, or I end up with a well-developing country, but become a target of oppertunity and constantly get attacked because my military is lagging behind.

Trying to decypher and understand the new AI behavours makes it all the more challenging. I'm up for a challenge, don't get me wrong, but I think I need to work on the fundamentals. Since there's so much area to cover in this kind of topic, let me start with a few questions.

And let's assume that we're dealing with the relatively easy Warlord difficulty. I'm trying to work my way up.

1) What's a good balance between expansion and military?

2) What's a reasonable score to expect after the first few hours relative to the AI?

3) Is it better to focus on developing wonders right off the bat, or to work on a broad military (of course I'm sure there are no hard and fast rules).


I suppose all I'm looking for is wisdom from people who ostensably "know what they're doing" and are willing to tutor a Civ Fanatic who needs to hit the books again.

Thanks.

Well not a particularly key player myself, but I'll say what I can

1) depends, a lot depending on timing (when to build up military units v. econ/civilian infrastructure is probably more important than how much)

2)..I'll skip

3) Wonders are something really good players say to avoid chasing, ... probably because its risky, and works a lot better on low levels (when you likely get things first easily). As you move up, you just end up waiting production. (from a mistimed cascade, etc.)

So basically
Military v. Territorial improvements+Buildings... priority depends on play style (territorial improvement generally being better than buildings on the civilian side...to a point)

Wonders... low priority (depending slightly on playstyle, but basically waiting until you have a few well developed cities (one for the Wonder and some others to carry your civilization while it works))

few other things, not automating workers in the early game (technically you shouldn't for the entire game if you want to avoid problems, but the most key time is early on, and de-automating a few during the game to adjust tiles properly.)

Consider that your Intro No Credit session... now I'll let the real professors take over.

 

[Bolgard]

Thank you for the Civ IV proficency exam - I look forward to the rest of the semester. I hope you guest lecture!

(seriously, thanks for the advice - I'll take it to heart)

 

[dacar92]

This is a kind of funny title for a thread. I have the same problem, sometimes.

I have always used a city for settler factory in Civ 3. Is it true that they have changed production to such an extent that this is either impossible or not useful? I read this in one preview of the game and have not yet played too much yet.

 

[Stevenpfo]

Confession time.

I've played Civ III for years, and I'm completely addicted to Civ IV now, but to be perfectly honest, I'm a very poor player. Perhaps I like punishment. I'm so bad that I can't even handle the standard difficulty, and couldn't in Civ III, so I think this is long overdue: I need to go back to Civ School.

I'm not so bad that I can't win on Settler or Chieftan, thank God - but even Warlord gives me problems. I either tend to become underdeveloped if I place an emphasis on military expansion, or I end up with a well-developing country, but become a target of oppertunity and constantly get attacked because my military is lagging behind.

Trying to decypher and understand the new AI behavours makes it all the more challenging. I'm up for a challenge, don't get me wrong, but I think I need to work on the fundamentals. Since there's so much area to cover in this kind of topic, let me start with a few questions.

And let's assume that we're dealing with the relatively easy Warlord difficulty. I'm trying to work my way up.

1) What's a good balance between expansion and military?

2) What's a reasonable score to expect after the first few hours relative to the AI?

3) Is it better to focus on developing wonders right off the bat, or to work on a broad military (of course I'm sure there are no hard and fast rules).


I suppose all I'm looking for is wisdom from people who ostensably "know what they're doing" and are willing to tutor a Civ Fanatic who needs to hit the books again.

Thanks.

I'm no genius when it comnes to civ as well but i'll give my little bit of wisdom i've learned in two days

1 - What do you like to do? If you like military expansions pick a civ like the romans who have a good early UU and dive at the iron working tech. You know what to do from there. If you're like me and like to build up and attack later in the game then you can follow my strategy so far: religion. I dive at the first couple religions and try to get em all. Deny your enemy as many as possible. Then on your tech tree try to get alphabet ASAP. That way you can trade techs. Pick a religion and foricibly spread it. A religion that's already spread a bit is best.

I usually drop one per enemy city right off the start so they switch to mine right away (as they have no other choice at that point). Then I back track and surround my empire with religious friendly cities. I don't build much of an army but this leaves you really safe in the long run. After that I base 90% of my political decisions off of religion. I've even gotten civs with their own holy city to switch to my religion.

Side note: Obviously spread to more powerful civs first.

2 - I never worried about score. If I had a tight, well developed empire with lots of friends I never worried about my score. I always figured score was for two things: player and AI. Player - For those players that like to see how high of a score you can get. AI - To give a rough (quick glance) judgement of all civs. Personally i'm usually happier with a medium score as that means it will be a challenging battle later on.

3 - Wonders I usually only build if I can afford to. Read the description on em and decide if they'll come in handy for you. So far i've built a couple each game depending on their use to me.

Hope that helps ya.

 

[fastspawn]

I analyze civ IV differently in terms of Wonders.

The main reason that wonder building is not advocated is not that it is risky at chieftain-prince level, but at higher level, apparently the computer cheats at wonder building. Having a strategy at lower level based around certain wonders, e.g. Pyramids or Great Library just handicaps yourself.

In Civ IV, i haven't noticed anything strange about wonder building. And wonders are extremely important because of the GPP and GPP specialisation they give. Essentially, by building an early wonder e.g. pyramids, you help yourself build extra wonders (Great Engineer points). In my opinion, you just need one city concentrate on Great Engineer points, to rush build all engineering wonders in that city, and spread the other GPP around so that you get other GP but at a slower rate. (after all you only need at the most 2-3 Prophets, and the rest are somewhat eck.)

 

[Galumphus]

I suck as well.

Let's say I'm playing on Noble.

a) How many units would you expect to have in and around your cities in, say, the Medeival era? 3 per city? 5? 1? I always feel like I either build way too many and lose the time I could spend building wonders, or I build way too few and would be screwed if the AI invaded.

b) Any advice on terrain improvements?

 

[Speciou5]

When I was a newbie to Civilization, I simply did the same thing a newbie would do at an RTS - focus on infrastructure and defense. With a strong infrastructure you are less likely to lag behind your enemies, because once you start to lag and don't know how or are unable to fix this problem.. well.. you're screwed. So focus and try to find an efficient and effective city layout, research funding %s, and etc. Hopefully you will be able to keep up with the your opponents after several attempts and lessons, otherwise keep working on it. (Note that this doesn't apply to the very high difficulty lessons, were the AI receive so many bonuses its extremely hard to keep up in a fair fight.)
Try a few games with a low aggression rating.

Regarding military, typically defense is easier to learn from. So try to focus on defense, (but not entirely as you want some way to take out any medic units sitting in your land and pillaging everything!).

Tips on infrastructure:
- Learn which tiles are the best (ex. snow sucks, hills are good for shields)
- Learn which terrain improvements and buildings are most effective/efficient (will have to relearn for Civ4 )

 

[gravix]

a) How many units would you expect to have in and around your cities in, say, the Medeival era? 3 per city? 5? 1? I always feel like I either build way too many and lose the time I could spend building wonders, or I build way too few and would be screwed if the AI invaded.

Don't tie yourself down to a hard and fast rule on number of units per city, as it depends on many things. Some things to consider are:

- Intentions of other civs: Are there civs nearby that are choked for land, and may see war with you as a good way to expand?
- Allies: Have any defense pacts with other civs? Is everyone nearby "pleased" with you? Do they all hate you?
- Your tech level: Do you have Macemen when your enemies are still fighting with Swordsmen? Or is it the other way around?
- City defenses: Have +60% bonus on all your cities and units with +25% city defense? Or no bonuses at all?
- Long term strategy: Are you trying for a military victory? Do you intend to start wars in this game?

All that said, somewhere between 1 and 3 units is probably appropriate for a peaceful civ, and many, many more if you intend to fight. Finally, remember that your primary advantage over the AI is that you are a thinking human being, and do not have to restrict yourself to specific rules about what to do in different situations. Hopefully you are better equipped to make decisions in the game now.

 

[drexvenor]

I would suggest staying away from wonders for a little while. I read a great article on this site for CivIII that I think still applies about not using wonders. Anytime you have a strategy that includes "must build x wonder" then you are in trouble. After having fun with CivIV for a couple of games I am now working on some strategies. I am playing some games now where I will not build any world wonders. This will allow me to build some flexible strategies that are independent of wonders. In later games if I build a wonder it will be more of a gift to myself because I will be in a position that it is not a set back to fail in the build race. Besides let your enemies build the wonders and then take them

 

[theholycow]

I tend to suck at Civ also, but it is fun
I was wondering if it still a good strategy to create specialist cities? E.g. cities that focus on production or commerce in the hearth of your empire and keep the border cities focussed on culture.
Not that I do that, I always fail to follow any strategy, but I try to change that
Maybe someone here can point me in the right direction?

 

[Mujadaddy]

Remember that in Civ4, military domination is NOT the only path to success

 

[theholycow]

I realize that, but I tend to get overrun by another civ later on in the game. When I've a strong military I start running behind in technology or my cities get defect due to lack of culture, but most of the time culture, tech and commerce are going fine but I lack a military to defend me. It is quite difficult for me to balance as you can see, but I keep learning
I wondered what kind of strategies people employed regarding their cities, until now I tried to build every building in every city, but that doesn't seem to work out well for me.
Maybe some people can spare me some thoughts on these subjects?

 

[Mujadaddy]

I haven't finished my first game yet, buuuuuut....

I've only gotten in one war so far. The Incas attacked me after I spread my state religion into one of their border cities. I wasn't very well prepared for it, but it seemed like the AI wasn't either (Noble level, by the way). I was able to ramp up my production, repel the invaders, and, by the time my army was pounding on one of his bigger cities, get the AI to sue for peace.

The practical upshoot? I don't have a lot of experience to advise you on different strategies...

 

[Pentium]

Remember that in Civ4, military domination is NOT the only path to success

Nor was it in Civ3.

 

[Mujadaddy]

In Civ3, military action was a MAJOR part of the game. Disagree?

In Civ4, you can "choose" to not fight ANY WARS at all if you play it right. The Pacifist Strategy didn't really exist in Civ3, in my opinion.

 

[juballs2001]

here is the thing on wonders.... why build em?

you can not build them, and in those 40 turns or so, build 4-5 settlers and expand your culture and military prowless, thus being able to take the cities that build the wonder you wanted.

steal wonders over building any day.

and on higher levels you will be lucky to build a wonder before an AI

 

[fastspawn]

i still tend to disagree with people who apply the traditional civ1-3 thinking about wonders to civ IV.
Building at least one wonder is so important in Civ IV to kickstart GPP. But then again i usually play philosophical civs so getting GPP is my strategy.

 

[mayonaise]

I've played the game a few times through, always on noble, heres what I found... note, i played civ1/2 extensively, but didnt play much of civ3.

1) What's a good balance between expansion and military?
my personal choice is to avoid war in the early game. anytime you engage in war it is a very costly and time consuming thing, and the most important thing in the early game is expansion. the land you can freely settle in the early game will have to be hard fought in the late game. this means make friends of your neighbors through open borders and religion, even throw them a free tech or two if you have to. just avoid war, expand, and build your infrastructure. if you get bogged down in a a petty war where you might capture a city or two, you're probably missing out on 30-40 turns of expansion and strengthening of your cities. with this strategy i keep ~1 unit per city. also, as the game progresses you can use those friends as buffers. sign a defense pact with a nearby nation as a "buffer zone" between those that dislike you. if a nation insists on going to war with you, pay off as many of your friends to declare war on him. chances are he'll get stampeded and sue for peace, and at least will be to preoccupied to attack. be wishy washy with your religion, convert to whatever is in vogue in your area. or you can be more aggressive and try to dictate this, but i think its easier just to follow the crowd. develop settlers and workers instead of missionaries.

2) What's a reasonable score to expect after the first few hours relative to the AI?
using the above strategy on noble, i had the high score throughout both games, although as said earlier, i don't think this matters much personally.

3) Is it better to focus on developing wonders right off the bat, or to work on a broad military (of course I'm sure there are no hard and fast rules).
i personally almost entirely ignore military. the only time i boost up a military is if there are great rewards-- such as taking a new land/island that has 1 or 2 cities just starting on it. using the strat i said above i generally have my way with world wonders. with every other civ balancing military/war/expansion and everything else, and me simply focusing on expansion and development... i usually have the edge in techs and wonders. a good tip with wonders is that if you developed the tech first (which you can tell by going through diplomacy) you have a pretty good shot at building the wonder first. if the techs been around for awhile, dont bother, someone is probably already halfway done building it.

hope that helps

 

[mayonaise]

oh, also, in the late game universal suffrage is the key.

get your tech to a level you're comfortable with and set your science at 0 and your culture at 10-20. you'll be raking in 1-2k per turn in gold which will allow you to outright buy wonders, improvements and an entire army in one turn. it is much more efficient than building, and greatly helps in gearing up your smaller struggling cities which take forever to develop. buy the UN and throw some gold around and you'll easily win the diplomatic win.