[Idea] More important route types

[Rasma]

It doesn't make much sence to have no trading until railroad, I mean people traded between China and Europe along the spice road which wasn't even cobblestone, from a logical standpoint I don't see the point of this. But what I would say would be make more benefits from the better roads, such as a highway in a high level hamlet could give a small hammer/gold bonus from giving a work force easier access to the city in question, where a railroad on a workshop, mine, farm, ect could give a bonus to production/food with the rapid transit capabilities.

I think this would be easier and fit in a bit better with how things actually work

 

[Faustmouse]

No, It was just a thought, I have no idea how to mod^^

@Rasma:
I understand your point and you are right... I think the best for ressources would to make them limited, but I heard before that this would be extremely hard to implent. But this is C2C, so I guess it will be implented nevertheless one day

 

[JosEPh_II]

There is an Option in the BUG Options screens for Resource depletion. Something similar to this proposal. I don't know how popular it is. It was introduced back in the AND days. I personally won't use it anymore.

And if your ideas were implemented I would insist that it be in Option form. Cause I wouldn't use it either. It's too limiting and would destroy games on certain map types.

JosEPh

 

[Nimek]

@Joseph

How you can say that it is not good? You dont even taste it

1 It is unrealistic to transport far ex big amounts of stone without wheel by paths in the jungles and forest

2 Now you have too early abillity to connects all of your resources so even in prehistoric era is very easy to build big empire.

3 I want to force players to think more about economy not only about another war

 

[JosEPh_II]

@Joseph

How you can say that it is not good? You dont even taste it

1 It is unrealistic to transport far ex big amounts of stone without wheel by paths in the jungles and forest

2 Now you have too early abillity to connects all of your resources so even in prehistoric era is very easy to build big empire.

3 I want to force players to think more about economy not only about another war

1. The Egyptians, Chaldeans of Ur, Nimrod of Babel fame(just a few off the top of my head) didn't seem to have these problems.
2. Here we go with another City Limit proposal in a new dress. I Like Big Empires Early and the way I set my game up the AI gets the smae chance to build a Big one too. Stop trying to destroy my way of playing Thank you.
3. I started playing this mod at it's inception as a Builder type Player. This Mod has Made me be more War like. And If you neglect your economy as it stands now you Will get run over. It's already in the mod Unless you have the Option Permanent Peace On. So I don't see #3. as even needed.

JosEPh

 

[Nevets_]

I wonder if it would be possible to add a 'consumes' tag onto buildings, so for example you could have a steel foundry consume 3 iron ore and 1 coal and give you 3 steel. You could also have multiple tech versions of the city vicinity buildings and make them autobuild/upgrade like the new housing does, and the vicinity buildings would give you additional resources based on their tech level.

So you build a city next to an iron mine, you get 1 iron resource from the map.
Iron Working tech auto builds 'Iron Tunnel Mine' in that city for +1 additional iron.
Explosives tech auto upgrades the building to 'Iron Shaft Mine' and +2 iron.
Modern Seismology auto upgrades the building to 'Modern Shaft Mine' and +3 iron, etc.
Armorers, cannon forges, dry-docks, any building that gives you a +% to military unit production would consume iron (modern ones would consume steel, etc.). So you'd be limited to how many you could build. A nation might build one of everything in one massive production city, or they might ignore all the +naval buildings and build one of each +land building in 2 cities. Or if they had an abundance of iron they could build 2 or three copies of each building.

This would be especially good for food/health resources, so 1 plot of wheat can no longer supply your entire civ with bread. You'd get 1 wheat from the plot and 1/2/3 from the version of the vicinity building you've got access to. A quern consumes 1 grain and gives 1 flour.
A bakery consumes 1 flour, so you can only build a few.

Right now when you decide where to place a new city, you think about getting resources you don't have, and high-value plots. If you also had to consider extra copies of resources you already have, a potential city which will have access to a couple more fish vs. a city which will give you your first source of dye now becomes a real decision.

 

[Nimek]

@Nevets

We all thinking about it but it is not so simple to implement.

 

[Faustmouse]

What about turning all ressources into properties like Crime? Like having an Iron-Ore connected provides 1 Iron-Point per turn in that city and one in every city that has traderoutes with city A, if its an shaft mine it produces 2, modern mine 3 etc... and stell mills would consume iron-points and coal-points but add steel-points etc...
however, those properties shouldnt drop below 0...

 

[TowerWizard]

@Nevets_: I agree, something like this is needed. I dislike feeling like I am forced to build every available building in every city (yes I know not every city can build every building, that's why I added the word available). Also, I remember months ago when I was nagging the modders to add more buildings that was built automagically [sic!] (although back then the idea was to build one building in any city, and then this would become autobuilt in all other cities that could build it (and not every building would work like that, either, for example not military buildings, or strategic buildings, or defensive buidlings, or... (I am tired and will stop now))).

@Faustmouse: I did not understand, please explain in more depth.

 

[Faustmouse]

Hmm... I really dont know how I will try:

You have 3 Cities: A B and C. They are all connected, but imagine you have almost no techs so A has only a Traderoute to B.
Lets say A has an Iron Ressource in his vicinity. You build a normal mine improvement on it and connect it with a road (or river or whatever) to A. Now, instead of having Ressource-Iron in A B and C, you would gain one "Iron-Point" per turn in A because you have a mine (like a Bandits Hideout produce +10 Crime-Points per turn). If you build an Iron-Smith in that city it will reduce Iron-Points by 1 per turn, like a courthouse reduces Crime-Pointsper turn. It also provides 1 Iron-Ingot per turn (or armour or tools, whatever you like).
Now all cities that have a traderoute from A (in this case only B) recive lets say 0.5 Iron-Points per turn. If you had more cities and multiple Iron-Ressouces, this will become an even higher number. Now Replace the Iron-Ressource with ALL ressources.
You got the idea? :/

You can add that normal Mines provide 1 point per turn, shaft mine 2, modern mines 3 and so on, maybe even link it to Techs.

You can add Storage Buldings, so if a city gets 2 Wheat-Points per turn but only uses 1 per turn it will accumulate points. With a storage-pit you can have at most 30 points, with a granary 100 points and so on...

Units could consume Ressource-Points when you build them: A Knight may consume 2 Iron-Points and 2 Horse-Points (abrasion while training or food).

If a city hasnt enough ressource-points it just stop producing until there are enough points available again.


Only thing that I dont like now on this is that you magically generate more Points (in total) when you increase the number of traderoutes...
I dont know if it will cause performance issues, but since crime and pollution also has a diffusion-rate, this shouldnt be the problem...


edit: Just some more thoughts about it:

You can say a Mine produce one Point per turn in that city and one pointper turn which is devided by the number of traderoutes, so the more traderoutes a city has, the less points each of the trade-cities gets.

Also, you could construct an Oil-Truck unit for example, which would cost Hammers and also 100 Oil-Points. Once it is built it works like a karavan and can be brought to an other city. In this city it can be consumed to increase the Oil-Points of this city by 100. You could restrict those Units to a certain route-type. So maybe a early game "Cheese trader" can transport 10 Points of Cheese while a modern cheese truck (only moveable on highways and above" can transport 100 Points. THis way you would have a "restriction" of ressource trading by route-types.

Another thought: A SUpermarket and similar could consum Milk, Cheese, etc depedent on the Population of the city. Ex one point of each for every 10 Pop-Points. If the city has not enough cheese, the city will get a little bit unhappy about it.

Units could consume Oil-Points if they are moved, so warfare becomes more strategic.

This system would need a lot of balance... I dont want to force a player to spend 50% of their turn with sending around trading units. Thats why I recommend a natural spread of ressources. However, if you have "extreme" cities, for Ex a very big city, you willl have to transport food-ressources to it, if the city produces a lot of units you will have to bring a lot of armour and weapons to it

 

[TowerWizard]

Maybe the solution would be to tag certain resources as "local", meaning they can be used only in the city closest to it (if a map resource) or that produces it (if a produced by a building)? That way, if you want the rest of your cities to get hold of it, you need to convert it into a "tradeable" resource, in which case it goes on the market as in the present game (for example, a Peddler can produce only enough shoes to satisfy demand in the city it is built in, but a shoe factory can produce enough for the entire world). This would mean that in the early game, cities will only have access to local produce (with some exceptions, like building resources and metals, since these were so important that people went through pain to transport them, unlike with shoes), until industrialization starts. Just a thought. It is not well thought out, so feel free to hack it to pieces.

@Faustmouse: I like the idea of resources that is spent upon use. That is one of the very very few things with ciV that I liked.

 

[Nimek]

edit: removed and added to bronze rsource thread

 

[Nimek]

Read Here - forget about previous posts

After some consultations with Koshling
I decided to rebuild my idea to make it simple to implement (Koshling said that this will be simple )

1 We add new tag to categorize resources for ex. meat, fruits, grains, ores, military (just examples)

2 We add abitlity to some buildings to give access to some resources from trade route ex Granary give access to grains (like wheat)

3 The same for tech

Now we have situation that new founded city with connection to trade route have all resources. I think some resources should require some buildings to store.

You cant store (have access) to wheat without granary.
You cant store meat without drying meat (i dont know correct word for this) tech

Every sim like game (civ city, pharaoh) starts that you must have correct buildings like magazines, granary to store resources. I want to bring this idea to C2C.

Remember this will be simple to implement (just new tag for buildings and resources) and can give alot of fun.

In reality you cant store ex oil if you dont have cistern for it.

Vicinity resources can work as they work now (without required buildings) this idea is about resources share by cities via trade routes

 

[Kreatur]

the stones for the pyramides where transportet by primitive ships. during vietnam war the vietkong transport artiliery via biciycle on jungle paths. its possible to transport any rescource on every kind of road. its true you cant transport tousands of tons of ore on a mud path, but in the time your empire is conectet via dust roads nobody needs so much ore. you need far less ore to craft some swords ore armors than you need for a tank.