Ideologies: Three Factories or Modern Era?

[joshua43214]

What if you're going domination and have little reason to head directly to Radio? I can see it being significantly faster to just build three factories in some secondary cities if you happen to be making an Autocracy push.

If you are this far up the tech tree in a domination game, you would be researching industrialization to upgrade your x-bows. It is sometimes a worthwhile gamble in domination, but well promoted x-bows work just fine until GWI's are out, and the AI should not have these until you are pushing for plastics unless you really neglected your tech. I only upgrade my x-bows for meat shields, and just use them to harass the enemy with.

Unless you got lucky with coal, have a boatload of cash or very high production cities, it is still faster to research radio first for your ideology, especially if you are building them in expos. You should be long done with Radio before the factories come out of production, and rush buying them uses gold better spent elsewhere.

 

[Hpuk]

I usually go radio to open up World Ideology in the WC before all the AI have gotten their ideologies. Faster, more reliable, and you'll have an easier time building factories when you've gotten the Order tenent that reduces their cost by 50%.

 

[Arachnofiend]

I was more thinking about the fact that, if I'm doing Industrial/Modern Era domination, I'm using Artillery and later Bombers. So I need to head straight to Railroad to get the Artillery up as soon as I can and then jump back over to the other side of the tree for Refrigeration. And THEN I get into the Modern Era via Flight. That's many more techs that I need than I need if I were going for another victory condition. I find the idea that you're taking down Industrial/Modern Era cities with crossbows dubious at best due to the AI's love for defensive buildings.

 

[Tabarnak]

Modern Rush. Even for dom. games it's powerful. Just think about fast factories from Order or Freedom for 6 free Legions. It worth a guess to get Radio before indu. Most of the time there is at least 3 coal around.

Only exception is when i'm gone dom. early and push indu. for gatling guns. But even then i prefer artillery.

 

[Makavcio]

I prefer three factories, because I take the time to finish all the techs in each era before advancing to the next.

It's a very, very, very, very, very bad approach and is usually characteristic for very green players. Don't get me wrong but if you want to improve your game, the first thing on your to-do list should be tech optimization.
You never need all techs in a given era unless you play a very specific religious game and you just need faith prices to be low as long as possible.

I almost always go for factories. Radio alone is not a very useful tech and industrialism usually appears the very moment the first international project starts. With factories I can easily win it and I'm also saving my GS for a decent rush a little later. Furthermore, early industrial era has 3 key techs: archeology, industrialism and fertilizer. With factories, you can fall behind a little with cultural race because you will be able to build your archaeologists with increased production. Increased population from fertilizer, and sometimes it's a huge kick, justifies waiting a little longer in industrial era.

Coal is rarely an issue. Even if you don't have it, there is always at least one CS with the littlest possible coal deposit. Bribe, gift-build mine, benefit. With this approach, I'm always far ahead with ideologies.

 

[Karmah]

Radio 100% of the time now. I want to be first to get my ideology and I have NO WAY of knowing wether I ll have coal , I can not afford to go industrialization to find out , so I rush radio using the science boost from public schools.It usually takes me 25 turns to get my ideology and that s basically the same as going industrialization , connect the coal and build the third factory without any gambling.
Actually I don t understand people who says factory if I have the coal ...;you don t know if you do unless I missed something.
(talking immortal+ game , in emperor- I can go industrialization , find out if I have coal and if not go modern instead and still be first)

 

[GoStu]

Actually I don t understand people who says factory if I have the coal ...;you don t know if you do unless I missed something.
(talking immortal+ game , in emperor- I can go industrialization , find out if I have coal and if not go modern instead and still be first)

I take an educated guess based on size of empire, and number of times I was 'suggested' to settle next to a place for no reason. (I often settle near those spots, if it's a decent city)

It's a really rough guess, but all I need is one 3 coal spot and I'm set. Every once in a while I'll get screwed hard, but otherwise I'm pretty safe assuming there's coal in or within Great General distance of my territory.

 

[Amarr Emperor]

you better have a good plan to quickly end the game if you don't modern rush, else you'll be behind on tech...

 

[loserforsale]

For me it generally depends upon the victory type I'm going for. If I'm going Culture, then I rush for Radio in order to be well placed to grab Broadway and/or the Eiffel Tower. If I'm going science, then I'm less worried about those so I'll tend to get three factories and save my Oxford and GSs for later - generally, Satellites/Rocketry for Oxford (and the Rationalism finisher for the other) and the GSs to be bulbed a few turns after that. Domination, I like to rush Modern in order to get as many free tenets as possible and so quickly reach Total War or Volunteer Army. I don't tend to play for Diplomatic, but if I were pushing that then I'd have to decide based upon the situation.

 

[Wodan]

I generally go for the factories, but that's because factories are a good priority in all of your cities in most games anyway.

One strong strat that hasn't been mentioned, though, is beelining and then picking Order to get Workers Faculties (half price factories and +25%).

I often prioritize biology in many games anyway (because it's often a critical point to ensure I have 10+ oil, and if I don't, to be able to pick a choice spot for a colony before the AIs get them all and shaft me with poor choices to get the oil: a polar ice city, commit to trade for it for the rest of the game, or do without). And, once you have biology, it's not too much of a stretch to get electricity and refrigeration or radio. Especially if your cities are low hammer / high food&science, where the half price factories are most needed and the boost is even more huge.

 

[joncnunn]

Having coal pop up within my borders is unreliable, so early rush to Modern for me.

 

[Callonia]

I prefer the three factory approach unless I cannot get 3 coals no matter what I do. I will pop a citadel just to steal coal if i can't acquire them peacefully, if no, war.

If that's not even an option, then the modern era rush. If not either.... I play quietly and plan a backstab to reverse my fortunes.

 

[Furret]

What if you're going domination and have little reason to head directly to Radio? I can see it being significantly faster to just build three factories in some secondary cities if you happen to be making an Autocracy push.

If you're going domination, you're not 'playing good'.

4 city tradition science victory is the only way to 'play good'.

 

[Wodan]

If you're going domination, you're not 'playing good'.

4 city tradition science victory is the only way to 'play good'.

totally wrong, so I hope the smiley means you're being sarcastic.

 

[King William I]

1. I go three factories because I'm always ahead in tech unless Korea is in the game and manages to not get taken out.

2. Why do people keep saying Venice won't have three cities? Finish the Liberty tree and research optics and you'll have four. That's what I do.

3. Can we please accept that everyone has different play styles and stop saying that your way is the only good way?

 

[Helmling]

Yes, I'm with Bad Wolf (Dr. Who Reference?). You have to beeline Factories--pursue coal aggressively if you don't end up with any--to get the free early adopter policies.

 

[Brettapod]

It really depends on the game. If I'm ahead of most technologically and have decent tourism, I usually go for early ideology. If I don't, I rush Radio and then build the Eiffel Tower.

 

[echolalia]

I find using oxford for radio normally the best strategy, it's fast( I research industrialization next) ; you can propose world ideology without opposition, and your saved money is better off being spent on public schools, and if you choose order the factories are built faster.

 

[joncnunn]

Yes, I'm with Bad Wolf (Dr. Who Reference?). You have to beeline Factories--pursue coal aggressively if you don't end up with any--to get the free early adopter policies.

Not necessarily, you can also be first in the world to ideology via getting Modern era early; this includes using either Oxford or finishing Rationalism to get Radio as a free tech.

Also, if the ideology you want is anything other than Order, then you can be quite late to found an ideology and still be first to it.

 

[Furret]

totally wrong, so I hope the smiley means you're being sarcastic.

Domination victories are really slow. When I said 'playing good' I was referencing the poster that whoever I quoted was responding to.

Radio is faster and works better with Order in 95% of the games.
Rush buying factories is very awkward at that point in the game because you have other science buildings that also need to be rush bought.
Going order is better in most games, so radio is better for because hard building factories is much easier.
Even on Deity, you can get stuck for 20 turns waiting for the AI to connect coal.

If you are playing any kind of tech based game, and you are playing well, then it is a very rare game that going industrialization first is optimal

this if u want play good.

Everything else is just bad gameplay or "roleplay"

What if you're going domination and have little reason to head directly to Radio? I can see it being significantly faster to just build three factories in some secondary cities if you happen to be making an Autocracy push.

The way tommynt expressed his opinion made it seem he believed the only way to 'play good' is to 4 city tradition for a science victory by turn 300 (or whatever the current record is).