I'm in a bit of a rut :)

[cherrysnowdrop]

Hi everyone,

Being a very mediocre civ player, every game I play seem to be the same, since I always make a mistake somewhere, but can't figure out when .

I have no idea how to get a domination, conquer or diplomatic victory, so each game is basically the same: pathetically get 3-4 cities at 500 BC, get 7 cities max, become a good techer but get steamrolled inevitably because my cities are poorly defended. So even though I try sometimes to stop improving my cities' culture and try to get lots of units, I end up having cities being pressured by neighbours, so I just start a new game and comfortably tech and get nice wonders. (Until someone comes and claim them for themselves, naturally.)

I'd really appreciate some help about balancing military, teching and culture, plus getting a decent amount of cities without having to drop to 30%. When I try to have a decent military I have no techs or culture and vice versa. I'm bored with my games and am tired of losing at noble (or just winning a cultural/space victory) because I can't bear to crank out enough settlers, workers and units when I can build temples and libraries.

Thanks!

 

[Jon the Bastard]

Try to focus on running a powerhouse economy first. Everyone prefers something different when it comes to economy. Some of the best things you can do is try and get to the tech Code of Laws first so that you can courthouses up in cities that you are paying distance costs on... any city far out from your capital you pay maintenance costs on. Making sure that most cities have grocers, markets, and banks also help keep your economy strong. Running harbors in your coastal towns to increase the trade yield you get form coastal trade is also a great way to help prop up your economy. A good economy means that you can tech out well and get to those military techs quick enough for them to be useful. The best thing you can do tactically is not pump out all your military units in just the cities that need them. Border cities need culture and such too, obviously. So, you might want to try using the cities farther within your borders to pump out military units while using your outlying cities to pump out culture and then use the military units you have created in the cities far inside your borders to protect the outlying cities. Like I said, everyone does it different... you just have to kind of play around with it until you find something that works for your playing style. I hope this help a little though.

 

[Bigv32]

do you have an example of such a game? Posting a save will get you better answers because people will have a better idea what you do.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Offhand, it sounds like you need one or two cities dedicated to producing military units and the rest can build Libraries, Temples, etc. City specialization really does help.

I usually don't build that many cities on a standard map. I take them. That's where the bonus from the military comes from. It doesn't matter who built the wonder (except for culture value), what counts is who has the wonder. If you have a tech lead, that's the time to use it to expand your empire. If you get to rifling and steel first, that's when the world is at your mercy. Rifles and Cannons rule!

Posting a save gets the best, most specific help, of course.

 

[Dragonxander PR]

Depending on the map size & amount of rivals, 7 cities may not be enough. For my typical games, I use around 10~15 cities, usually sticking to 12 (the needed amount to get a cathedral on a single religion for a huge map cultural victory--I often aim for 3 religions present in my civ).

Having well-developed cities is a good thing, but if they're far too few, the later game would be significantly more difficult.

 

[Sisiutil]

Some suggestions:

1. City specialization.
2. Diplomacy. Adopt the religion of your biggest, meanest neighbours and accede to their requests. At least until you're big and mean enough to stomp them. Which brings me to...
3. Give up the wonders for a game. Pump out military and conquer a neighbour instead, even if your economy nearly crashes in the process. Take some turns to recover and rebuild your economy. Rinse, repeat.

 

[skyclad]

Together with the above, try to leverage things like bulbing and techtrade. If the AI doesnt have much to trade you, it means you are in a good position in tech and can focus on wiping one of them out instead of maximizing your tech advantage a little more. (not always of course, like just before an important military or production tech, or in the middle of your lib beeline.)

 

[cherrysnowdrop]

Thanks a lot to everyone, I wish I had a save I could show but I play on another comp that can't connect. Is there a way to upload them from one computer to another?

I actually tried to go just military and attack but I pathetically lose all of the units and can't get a single city. I try and wait until I have a strong stack but then the AI have strong armies, too. I don't have a problem with teching, I usually keep up with the rest.

Would military cities be the best that are inside my borders and don't have cultural worries? I don't understand much about speciliazing either, so I just cottage everywhere, hook up resources and farm riversides.

 

[Sisiutil]

Before you play your next military game, read through my guide to the Early Rush (link in my sig).

My first military city will inevitably become my Heroic Epic city. Obviously you want a city with good production potential--so several hills for mines and maybe even a production resource like copper, iron, or horses. Of course the city should have enough food so it can support the citizens working the low-food production tiles while still growing. But not too much food, otherwise it would make a better specialist city. And ideally it should not have any high-commerce tiles. This city should be pumping out units almost exclusively; you don't want to feel obligated to build libraries and markets and the like because it also has 3 dye tiles. Tiles around a production city will be improved with farms, mines, watermills, and workshops as needed/appropriate.

Aside from that, I prefer the city to be coastal so it can build naval units as well as land units. I try to choose a city location that is closer to where the action is going to be so the units don't have that far to go, but not right on the border so it has to fight cultural tug-o-wars and, even worse, be threatened by invasion itself.

I follow these same principles for later production/military cities, such as the one where I'll build West Point.

 

[happyturtle]

I needed a lot of practice to break out of the peace habit. I found succession games helped. I would build up the economy while other players were better at building the army. I got to where I could fight wars that had been staged on the turnset before. I used that experience to start winning battles on my own games, where I had a tech advantage. Eventually I started learning how to fight AIs that had tech parity with me.

But I was still not fighting wars until after the REX phase. The articles on worker stealing and early rushes were a huge help in encouraging those early wars. It's amazing how far back you can set a neighboring civ by taking their first worker from them.

Other than that, practice practice practice. Start lots of wars. Lose them. Rinse and repeat. Lose them less badly. Eventually you'll start winning.

 

[tdqtiger]

I sounds like your military tactics might need a little adjusting. First things first, if you are gonna go the military route, the best thing to do is go with Vassalage & Theocracy. Combine that with a Barracks, and you will get two updgrades when you build your units.

Next, bring plenty of Catapults. I normally have at least 8 initially. If you take my civs suggestion, that means you can upgrade to Accuracy, so when you bombard the city, you can usually take the defenses down in one turn, and have a few left over. You can attack with those and cause collateral damage. Then you can attack with your units. By the way, make sure you have all your units highlighted, (all except your catapults). Keep in mind that once you beat your enemy's initial buildup, he usually won't have much left in reserve. That's why it's better to attack than defend.

 

[cherrysnowdrop]

I started reading it now, thanks Thank you for the list of what a military city needs, though my problem is that usually at the beginning it's my capital. Is that a waste of a powerful city?

Yeah I do need to get out of the peace rut, it's just so cozy to get libraries and temples and tech your way to rocketry, but then even the spiritual AIs look at me and see breakfast . I never considered stealing their workers, mainly because I can't manage to get them back to safety more often than not lol.

tdqtiger, I don't actually have any military tactics! I love catapults but when I manage to get them the AI already are pretty strong, is it worth waiting or is just rushing early better?

 

[happyturtle]

Even if the worker doesn't live, it still hurts the other civ to lose him and gives you a competitive advantage. If he does make it back alive... even better!

Oh, and try increasing the speed to Epic or Marathon. It made war much less frustrating for me because I had much more time to use a unit before it needed to be upgraded.

 

[Sisiutil]

I started reading it now, thanks Thank you for the list of what a military city needs, though my problem is that usually at the beginning it's my capital. Is that a waste of a powerful city?

It depends upon what the land around the capital looks like. If it lends itself to being a production powerhouse, then by all means go that route; you can always move the capital a little later.

Usually, though, yes, it is a waste to build the Heroic Epic in the capital and devote it to unit-building only. Capitals are usually excellent locations for commerce cities (lots of riverside tiles) or for specialists (lots of food). Either type of city requires several non-military builds to take full advantage. I prefer making the capital into a commerce city to take full advantage of the +50% boost from Bureaucracy; if the capital makes a better Great Person farm, I'll build the palace in my best commerce city just in time for Civil Service.

Suffice it to say that for the early part of the game at least, your capital will likely have to serve multiple purposes. It can specialize later on once you have more cities.

I love catapults but when I manage to get them the AI already are pretty strong, is it worth waiting or is just rushing early better?

If you read through my Early Rush guide, the criteria for attempting or not attempting an early rush are spelled out pretty clearly. Catapults are meant to balance out the stronger garrisons your opponents will have. By removing cities' cultural defenses, bombarding the defenders, and causing collateral damage, your infantry units will have an easier time. But this does require you to build a larger and more varied invading stack.

If you really feel like warmongering, there's nothing to say you can't take out one neighbour with an early rush, then another one later on with catapults. Frankly, after an early rush you're likely to have a relatively large army of veteran units with City Raider promotions. You invested a lot of hammers in them, so it make sense to keep getting returns on that investment throughout the game.

 

[cherrysnowdrop]

Yes thank you a lot for the advice! I hadn't read the guide when I posted. It was very useful, btw!

 

[Willem]

Hi everyone,
pathetically get 3-4 cities at 500 BC, get 7 cities max,

Well there's part of your problem, you're not expanding enough. You need alot more than 7 cities to hold your own in the game. It takes 8 cities just to unlock certain buildings, like the Forbidden Palace. I'm not sure what map size you're playing on, but my record for a Huge map so far has been 70 cities. I typically build at least 30-40 or so myself then conquer the rest. I usually have at least 7-8 cities in the time that you're only building 3 or 4.

 

[gingerbill]

just some things i've found helped me that i was neglecting . Just these simple things make a big diffrence.

1) get cottages going early , this makes a huge diffrence later on .

2) use diplomacy well . Trading techs properly makes a very big diffrence , also keeping the right AI's happy. One thing that basically made me win my last game was bribing a couple of weaker AI's to keep attacking my rival , its satisfying to see his score dropping and him losing cities without you lifting a finger. Sure as its my rival being attacked by weaker AI's he will win the war or call peace but think how much that holds him back.

3) Mixing up your military to counter his units is far better than just building loads of the most powerful unit you can.

4) Make sure one city is for producing GP's. All you need is food tiles and farms , you can then later simply switch it to another money or science city if you want.

5) oh and the very start is probably the most important , producing a worker first (assuming you have the tech to use them) really helps , then followed by another worker or settler depending on the situation.

 

[Willem]

5) oh and the very start is probably the most important , producing a worker first (assuming you have the tech to use them) really helps , then followed by another worker or settler depending on the situation.

It's not really a good idea to build that many of those kinds of units right away. Your city doesn't grow in all that time so you could be giving yourself an early handicap. It's better to alternate with some unit that doesn't consume food, like a Warrior or Archer. Besides, you don't want to send a Settler out in the wilderness all alone where it can get eaten by an animal. One Worker right away is usually enough, followed by a Warrior/Settler combo.

 

[Etheric]

You don't say what level or map size you are playing, I am guessing you are about noble and normal map size? Noble is when life starts getting tough, and you have to pay attention to what the AIs are doing.

Not sure what size maps youa re playing on, but normal sized maps and 6 cities is more or less what you are aiming for. Clearly more on larger maps. 6 cities is enough to build all the improvements.

It is a feature of civ 4 vs all the previous games that you need a FAR larger military than in other civ games.

The key is to specialise your cities. Don't build pointless infrastructure everywhere, that is probably where you are going wrong. You only need 1-2 libraries, at least early game.

Keep your cities to granaries and monuments (if needed), stay away from the wonders (possible exceptions oracle and great library, particularly if you have marble). Get monarcy, get hereditary rule and pump units. 2-3 units per city is good. The unit support costs are far far less than previous versions. And the +1 happy from units is powerful.

If you have a weak military the AIs will recognise it and attack you, so you have to be aware of what is going on. Diplomacy actually MATTERS in civ 4, religion being a key point. Be very aware of who is what religion and how it affects you. Being the only one with a specific religion is a VERY bad idea at higher levels.

A normal start is something like worker, warrior, warrior (the units for the happy with hereditary rule).

Go watch some of TheMeInTeam's videos. He really builds minimal infrastructure and LOTS of units.

In terms of cities you need one production city (lots of hills), one great person farm (lots of food specials, build a library there and work 2xscientist specialists, for the beakers and great people points), and if you don't know what to build in a city build a unit. Don't bother with a library in your production city, it will give nothing of value. Just pump units there. In a city with a lot of river tiles and cottages build libraries.

Prioritise wonders, you don't need them all. Try to build ones which you have the special for, but think very very carefully about building anything you don't have the special with. The great library is great. Similarly the lighthouse if you have a lot of coastal cities. Build the national epic in your great person farm city.

And don't forget units are cheap, cheap cheap in civ 4. Build lots .

 

[destroyer0203]

I am kind of like you, i like to build up peacefully keeping cities to a minimum and just advance in tech.... until someone kills me. So that is why i started liking islands games. It is kind of like peace time in the start so for the first 100 turns or so you can just build. and if you want to lessen your worries even more try OCC so you don't have to worry about multiple cities. And if you STILL get attacked you can do always peace.