[BTS] IMM & Deity lets play collection thread - Henrik

[konata_LS]

@Henrik75
Cool! Looking forward to seeing your future videos (Willem and Toku ones)
And congrats on your Lincoln game! Well played and educational.

@Gressulf
That Boudica map looks tricky from T0; same for WK map.
By the way, if you like, you could also try the map I posted at #17. Both map and leader are not good for a high score attempt, but they are good for improving skills. If you can win as Toku in a slow start at Immortal, it may be a sign that you're ready to challenge Demi-god or Deity.

 

[Gressulf]

@konata_LS
I might check it out, yes. Tokugawa just so happens to be my favorite leader.

Edit:
I will have to fix that river tile though. No way I can look at that the entire game.
What happened there?

Edit 2:
Fixed it!

Spoiler Before :

Spoiler After :

 

[konata_LS]

@Gressulf
A little embarrassed about that river... In fact, I only had the T0 save after the settler SIP and moving the warrior 1NE, didn't have the save before the settler found the first city and warrior move. So I had to go to WB, choose "erase mode", removed Kyoto and place a settler. But in Erase mode, when a city was erased, the river in that tile was erased as well. So I was trying to restore the river at the settler's initial place to make it look like the initial Monarch save (see the screenshot below). Also put the warrior at his initial place, namely 1E of the dye. It was the first time I used WB to restore things and I'm still clumsy . The river was restored, but the shape is a little weird. Though the riverside tiles remain riverside, and non riverside tiles have no river added.

Spoiler Monarch T0 after SIP and warrior move :

To be honest, looking at the starting place gave me a strong urge to re-roll the map. But after SIP, that Marble made me think "well, let's see if I can survive to Renaissance era".
PS: The first time I played this map, jungle spawned in a grassland then on the Rice. Unlucky indeed.

The river you've fixed is exactly what I wish to restore! How did you manage to do that?! Marvelous

Spoiler :

As you've checked the WB save, SIP is definitely not a good choice.

Spoiler :

Settle 1E kills a forest but Copper would be in Kyoto's BFC .

 

[Fish Man]

@konata_LS
I might check it out, yes. Tokugawa just so happens to be my favorite leader.

Edit:
I will have to fix that river tile though. No way I can look at that the entire game.
What happened there?

Edit 2:
Fixed it!

Spoiler Before :

View attachment 611428

Spoiler After :

View attachment 611429

Major spoilers about the map ahead, and I did something a bit out of the ordinary -

Spoiler :

After playing a bit and seeing everyone's capitals, I got intensely jealous of the massive flood plains area that would end up getting settled by Hannibal and Darius. But then I had an idea - instead of just slogging on to another relatively straightforward immortal win (because the start as Japan is pretty OP, to be completely honest with you), I edited the WB save down to noble difficulty, switched Darius and Hannibal's starting positions, and then played as Darius to try to get a sub-t200 space victory. After immortal-rushing everyone except for Wang, I'm making over 800 beakers/turn and have 24 cities by 100AD...will post the finished game if I make it in time!

 

[krikav]

I want the save with the fixed river!!

 

[konata_LS]

Attached the WB save with the river fixed (after a dozen of failed attempts in WB ). Everything else (difficulty level, starting place, resources...) remains the same .

Spoiler Fixed river :

@Fish Man

Spoiler :

Oh come on! "Toku at Immortal" is completely different than "Darius at Noble" .

With map knowledge is a thing, but without map knowledge, for people who still play at Monarch and below, "Toku forests" start is very slow. For Deity players like you, no Immortal map is challenging. If you want something more exciting, why don't you swap the starting place with Wang Kon and change the difficulty level to Deity? That game would be full of excitement .

You also noticed the insane flood plains that Darius and Hanni can settle. That's what makes things difficult: when I played this map in the first try, I was surprised that Hannibal expanded and teched very fast while wonder spamming. After my warrior saw his land, I understood why. Capturing Darius' capital would be a nice boost for the player (Toku).

I want the save with the fixed river!!

Please see the attached file. Also updated at #17 .

 

[Gressulf]

@konata_LS

Sorry for not getting back to you on the river. Time zone is a b***h. But seems you managed to get the river fixed. Good. River is a huge headache in the WB.

Below you can see the status of my game after 38 turns and city placement suggestions.

Spoiler :

As you can see I settled 1SE. Removed one forest, but got more river tiles. Of course also lost the Marble and Rice, but gained the Sugar, so no problem for me there. Also lucky to get the Copper. I think Marble and Rice can be acquired by another city. Not really urgent resources.
I was actually thinking about settling on the Dye for a second.

Settler will pop in one turn and I am not sure where I want to settle. My first thought is to grab the second corn and share some cottages with my capital. However... Getting that Stone south of capital could be a good move... It will be close to Darius, who I am thinking about Axe rushing.

Edit:
Actually, I think my second City will pick up the Corn and the Fish. That way I can get the Corn without border pop for my 3rd or 4th city. I will grow on the Corn and whip out a WB, then chop out a new Settler with my current worker, and put any overflow into a worker/warrior. Will pre-road Copper with one turn left on road on the Forest 1S from Corn.

Edit 2:
Two turns later and Barbs settled a City on the Ivory... Oh well.

 

[konata_LS]

@Gressulf
Nevermind. Thanks for pointing out the river problem
Your game

Spoiler :

Settling 1SE looks better than SIP Lost a forest but saves some worker turns when sending worker to farm the Corn. Though this start is still not easy for Toku, especially compared to other AI's starting place.

AGG with capital Copper is tempting for Axe rush. Elepults is another option if you capture that barb city. Darius is a good target, DoW on him wouldn't get you too much diplomacy penalty with your other neighbours.

The land makes fog-busting somewhat challenging. When I played this, I was busy chopping Axes to rush Darius, and Hannibal grabbed that Stone spot .

 

[Gressulf]

@konata_LS

Spoiler :

I think I will go for Brennus... He is being really annoying and he doesn't seem to have Copper. Maybe he will have Iron, but I want to stop him before that. He will most likely build Swords, so Axes are a good counter anyways, sprinkled with some Spears for the Chariots.

Spoiler :

I just took the Ivory Barb city with two Axemen. Got some nice CR Axemen now that will hack into Brennus shoulder in a little bit.

 

[Fish Man]

@konata_LS

Spoiler :

I think I will go for Brennus... He is being really annoying and he doesn't seem to have Copper. Maybe he will have Iron, but I want to stop him before that. He will most likely build Swords, so Axes are a good counter anyways, sprinkled with some Spears for the Chariots.

Spoiler :

I just took the Ivory Barb city with two Axemen. Got some nice CR Axemen now that will hack into Brennus shoulder in a little bit.

View attachment 611468

Spoiler :

A much more hammer-efficient option is running over people with elepults...you could probably take Darius AND Hannibal with that. Even if they had longbows, because elephants are just that OP.

 

[Gressulf]

@Fish Man

BTW, I just noticed we hijacked @Henrik75 s thread. Sorry Henrik!

Spoiler :

Yes, that is probably in the cards tbh. I have taken one city from Brennus now, will take another soon, and then probably make peace.

And what the heck is up with these guys? It's 650 BC and none of them have Alpha yet...

 

[Henrik75]

I'll be joining your game in an hour always interesting to see how other people play the same maps. Until later I don't dare click the spoilers. Will try the other two posted maps afterward.

 

[jnebbe]

Here's a map I tried playing but couldn't win. Definitely on the harder side for an immortal map

Spoiler :

Leader is Brennus

Bad leader, bad land, bad ai, bad everything

Didn't edit wb file, make sure you don't see the other leaders when picking your leader

 

[Henrik75]

Turn 84. Toku Immortal game

Spoiler :

Darius plotted randomly at 1400 BC and attacked hannibal, i was scared for a moment.

 

[Henrik75]

Deity 34. Willem

Details

Spoiler :

Strong high food and commerce start, cold climate fractal map.

 

[konata_LS]

@Henrik75

Spoiler :

OMG settling on Dye is genius! Gem and wet Corn made your capital much stronger !

Darius DoW on Hannibal but Monty was still at peace . It reminds me of your recent Vicky deity game, when Pericles started plotting early but Toku didn't. This Toku map is to some degree the opposite of your Vicky game: in Toku one, you're quickly boxed in but the most advanded AIs are your neighbours. In Vicky game, you had nice land and peacefully got 10 cities, but the strongest techers were far away.

Curious to see how you will deal with the situation. But you may want to keep people in suspense for your videos.

@jnebbe

Spoiler :

Pig and flood plains look nice, but some bad surprises may hide in the fog.

 

[Henrik75]

@Gressulf

For the Wang Immortal game I played up to turn 78, and yes will be going on youtube later on.

Spoiler :

Tough start indeed. I went Fishing > BW > Hunting > AH > Sailing > Masonry, had zero downtime with worker this route. settled for copper and fish first, then settled on the hill to the right after seeing that suspicious yield 2SE from the hill, hoping to make contact with another continent soon.

 

[Henrik75]

@konata_LS

Spoiler :

Actually, the gem, marble and rice in the capital second ring is just pure luck. I naturally settled on dye for the +1 commerce from the start; because i won't be cottaging or working that tile for at least like 50 turns, so getting immediate benefit out of it is really nice, and the unforested grassland hill to the south being a nice tile to mine for when I finished farming the corn but still waiting for bronze working - this would be zero downtime. But then gems appeared so its like, well nvm.

You may think Tokugawa sucks but any wetcorn + gems + river start is an amazing start for any leader. Try Tokugawa with a double plains cow and calendar resources start then that's true pain.

.

 

[Gressulf]

@Henrik75

Challenge accepted!

Spoiler :

Aaaaaand my closest neighbor. Your favorite!

Spoiler :

 

[konata_LS]

@Henrik75

Spoiler :

That marble and gem may be pure luck, but they can also be considered as the reward for your better decision-making. Settling on dye looks like the best choice in this start. Mining that unforested hill also avoids the waste of worker turns before BW.

For Deity players like you, any leader in a naturally generated Immortal map is not difficult at all. But for those struggling at lower levels, gem and Corn just makes a painful start less painful.

Curious to see how you turn a weak leader into an amazing game. Agree with you about plain cows + Calendar would become more painful for Toku.

Also wondering when Monty will start his first war in your game .

Spoiler :

When I played this, Monty founded Hinduism and WK Buddhism. Monty dow on WK quite early and they were busy killing each other for a long time.

@Gressulf
Oh Toku + 2 plain cows with so many brown tiles ... Good luck