Immortal Great People

[nealhunt]

I was playing for a cultural victory and had stockpiled GAs. I got within striking distance and started building great works to put my cities over the top. Imagine my surprise when they started turning up in the capital afterwards.

I had built Blood of the Phoenix and they were all immortal. I actually could have won much earlier if I'd known that. Immortal GPs for Altar and Immortal GEs for Altar or Tower victories would also be extremely useful.

This feels a bit cheesy, imho.

It is intentional, or is it an unintended a side effect of other mechanics?

 

[Wyrmhero]

I was playing for a cultural victory and had stockpiled GAs. I got within striking distance and started building great works to put my cities over the top. Imagine my surprise when they started turning up in the capital afterwards.

I had built Blood of the Phoenix and they were all immortal. I actually could have won much earlier if I'd known that. Immortal GPs for Altar and Immortal GEs for Altar or Tower victories would also be extremely useful.

This feels a bit cheesy, imho.

It is intentional, or is it an unintended a side effect of other mechanics?

It's unintended, and Kael knows about it. It's also been observed with copying GP with the Black Mirror.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

what's weird is that I'm pretty sure this was already fixed in 0.34. :\

 

[zup]

Yep. Also hurt Hyborem badly, as his gp were demons, not-alive, not phoenixable.

 

[Kael]

I dont mind immortal great people from the blood of the phoenix. If you happened to have a great person sitting around when the phoenix triggered then its okay with me if you get to use him twice. But it will only work twice.

I dislike any black mirror loops, so those need to be fixed. Im okay with a major unit and major ritual combo that gets you a bonus great person. Im not okay with infinite great people.

 

[ushram]

I still can not understand why people stock pile GP's, each stage of the alter adds to GP points...

 

[rusty217]

I still can not understand why people stock pile GP's, each stage of the alter adds to GP points...

Great Artists, so you can quickly get to the Cultural victory before anyone notices and attacks you...

Great Engineers, To quickly finish a tower, either the tower of mastery and it's prereqs or the final stage of the altar...

 

[FireBlaze]

Think he was mainly refering to priests though. The only reason I could see would be to pop 1-6 lunnotar in one turn then rush final with engineers. That would be awesome. Especially in MP-

Player: This game is fun, and I don't think its going to end soon. I just scouted to make sure no one was building the alter though.
-Next turn-

Your enemy has won a lunnotar victory!

Player: So thats what the great priests and engineers were for ....

 

[ushram]

Think he was mainly refering to priests though. The only reason I could see would be to pop 1-6 lunnotar in one turn then rush final with engineers. That would be awesome. Especially in MP-

Player: This game is fun, and I don't think its going to end soon. I just scouted to make sure no one was building the alter though.
-Next turn-

Your enemy has won a lunnotar victory!

Player: So thats what the great priests and engineers were for ....

yeah, I was referring to priests.
Even if u are playing an mp game, most people will not be able to notice(if at all) until it is far too late

 

[Old MacDonald]

I dont mind immortal great people from the blood of the phoenix. If you happened to have a great person sitting around when the phoenix triggered then its okay with me if you get to use him twice. But it will only work twice.

It's a bit illogical, though - after all, the great people aren't actually killed when they're used (they're just removed from play, as they become busy with whatever you ordered them to do).

 

[Deon]

I agree. It could be useful if one is kileld by enemy and is resurrected, but I don't think that "involvement" in such project should be counted as kill (and settling too).

 

[WarKirby]

It's a bit illogical, though - after all, the great people aren't actually killed when they're used (they're just removed from play, as they become busy with whatever you ordered them to do).

This.

A great engineer doesn't make cement with his blood, and put the finishing touches to your tower/crown/hall/thing with his last dying breath.

He builds it, and then settles down on the huge retirement fund that comes from doing such a project, happy to never work again.

I think the immortal great people thing is just illogical, it ought to be fixed.

 

[Charlie_B]

I've just had an epiphany. Ardor + Birthright Regained + Ardor + Blood of the Phoenix =

 

[Methuselah]

I've just had an epiphany. Ardor + Birthright Regained + Ardor + Blood of the Phoenix =

*Goes to start a game as the Grigori*

 

[megamanx06]

if settlers were killed with phoenix, would they respawn?

This.

A great engineer doesn't make cement with his blood, and put the finishing touches to your tower/crown/hall/thing with his last dying breath.

He builds it, and then settles down on the huge retirement fund that comes from doing such a project, happy to never work again.

I think the immortal great people thing is just illogical, it ought to be fixed.

so maybe phoenix wouldn't make him reborn, but have the strength to do twice the work? or have him reborn when he does die naturally?

 

[Methuselah]

so maybe phoenix wouldn't make him reborn, but have the strength to do twice the work? or have him reborn when he does die naturally?

What do you call a natural death on Erebus?

Is being killed by a giant spider par for the course or something?

 

[megamanx06]

What do you call a natural death on Erebus?

Is being killed by a giant spider par for the course or something?

w/e you know what i mean, make it work.

 

[zup]

Killed by bear is closer to a natural death in my experience.

 

[Mesix]

Blood of the Phoenix for for a cheezy cultural win!

Stockpiling GA for a cultural win is a pretty standard tactic in Vanila. It is no accident that a player may have 10 or 11 GA laying around when the project is finished. It seems like an exploit to get 2x the benefit from the stockplied GA. I suppose if you are keeping them that late in the game you have already missed a fast Cultural win that stockpiling GA is designed for, so it doesn't have too much of an unbalancing effect.

 

[zup]

It is better to stockpile great merchants. One can have huge cities that way.

The trick is, get some great merchants, build the phoenix ritual, settle the great merchants once. And then build the ritual again, settle once more, repeat ad infinitum. Of course, you'll have to change phoenix to have infinite uses for that.

It does get ridiculously cheesy with Grigori if you make birthright regained repeatable too. Say, cast ardor, get 30 or so gp in one turn. Though not really guaranteed, some of them will probably be adventurers too. (Talking about a ridiculously huge empire.)