Improving Protective Trait

[Imperator Knoedel]

Anything food related would be OP.

Even if it's only 5 and 10 % for Walls and Castles respectively? We could lower the Granary's storage capacity to 35% and give the same bonus to Bunkers and Bomb Shelters in the late game.

I'm probably very slow, but it only just occurred to me that the common theme for PRO leaders is really unification. The trait as it stands doesn't really reflect this however, and it's hard to think of how to do it better with the available XML options.

How about decreased likelihood to revolt or flip? Or increased likelihood to flip other cities, or shortened resistance time on conquest?

 

[Ghpstage]

@Kid R. I wanted to give the sentry idea a try but I can't figure out how to do it in XML.

Is it that you can't find the TraitInfos.xml file? Its in the Warlords rather than BTS assets as nothing was changed between the two.

For modding, it I would copy that traitinfos.xml file into your new BTS mods assets->XML->Civilizations folder
and then EDIT follow what Kid R said below to add a third trait Pro+ trait to Pro leaders .

			<FreePromotions>
				<FreePromotion>
					<PromotionType>PROMOTION_CITY_GARRISON1</PromotionType>
					<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
				</FreePromotion>
				<FreePromotion>
					<PromotionType>PROMOTION_DRILL1</PromotionType>
					<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
				</FreePromotion>
			</FreePromotions>
			<FreePromotionUnitCombats>
				<FreePromotionUnitCombat>
					<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_ARCHER</UnitCombatType>
					<bFreePromotionUnitCombat>1</bFreePromotionUnitCombat>
				</FreePromotionUnitCombat>
				<FreePromotionUnitCombat>
					<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_GUN</UnitCombatType>
					<bFreePromotionUnitCombat>1</bFreePromotionUnitCombat>
				</FreePromotionUnitCombat>
			</FreePromotionUnitCombats>

 

[Kid R]

@Kid R. I wanted to give the sentry idea a try but I can't figure out how to do it in XML.

Turns out promo ideas can't *necessarily* just be implemented in the XML As the game's coded right now each trait can only have one group of free promos, all of which get applied to a group of unit classes.

It would need a small C++ change to do this properly, but we can still fudge it in the XML to have a try and see how it plays (there's always a way! ). Needs 2 or 3 file edits as follows:

Spoiler :

1. Add a whole new trait TRAIT_PROTECTIVE+ and give it the desired extra promo(s) on unit class(es).

Spoiler :

Add this to the bottom of the file Ghpstage mentioned.

		<TraitInfo>
			<Type>TRAIT_PROTECTIVE+</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_PROTECTIVE+</Description>
			<ShortDescription>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_PROTECTIVE+_SHORT</ShortDescription>
			<iHealth>0</iHealth>
			<iHappiness>0</iHappiness>
			<iMaxAnarchy>-1</iMaxAnarchy>
			<iUpkeepModifier>0</iUpkeepModifier>
			<iLevelExperienceModifier>0</iLevelExperienceModifier>
			<iGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iGreatPeopleRateModifier>
			<iGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iGreatGeneralRateModifier>
			<iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>
			<iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>
			<iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>
			<iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>
			<ExtraYieldThresholds/>
			<TradeYieldModifiers/>
			<CommerceChanges/>
			<CommerceModifiers/>
			<FreePromotions>
				<FreePromotion>
					<PromotionType>PROMOTION_SENTRY</PromotionType>
					<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
				</FreePromotion>
			</FreePromotions>
			<FreePromotionUnitCombats>
				<FreePromotionUnitCombat>
					<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_MELEE</UnitCombatType>
					<bFreePromotionUnitCombat>1</bFreePromotionUnitCombat>
				</FreePromotionUnitCombat>
				<FreePromotionUnitCombat>
					<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_GUN</UnitCombatType>
					<bFreePromotionUnitCombat>1</bFreePromotionUnitCombat>
				</FreePromotionUnitCombat>
				<FreePromotionUnitCombat>
					<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_RECON</UnitCombatType>
					<bFreePromotionUnitCombat>1</bFreePromotionUnitCombat>
				</FreePromotionUnitCombat>
				<FreePromotionUnitCombat>
					<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_ARCHER</UnitCombatType>
					<bFreePromotionUnitCombat>1</bFreePromotionUnitCombat>
				</FreePromotionUnitCombat>
				<FreePromotionUnitCombat>
					<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_MOUNTED</UnitCombatType>
					<bFreePromotionUnitCombat>1</bFreePromotionUnitCombat>
				</FreePromotionUnitCombat>
				<FreePromotionUnitCombat>
					<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_ARMOR</UnitCombatType>
					<bFreePromotionUnitCombat>1</bFreePromotionUnitCombat>
				</FreePromotionUnitCombat>
				<FreePromotionUnitCombat>
					<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_HELICOPTER</UnitCombatType>
					<bFreePromotionUnitCombat>1</bFreePromotionUnitCombat>
				</FreePromotionUnitCombat>
				<FreePromotionUnitCombat>
					<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_NAVAL</UnitCombatType>
					<bFreePromotionUnitCombat>1</bFreePromotionUnitCombat>
				</FreePromotionUnitCombat>
				<FreePromotionUnitCombat>
					<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_AIR</UnitCombatType>
					<bFreePromotionUnitCombat>1</bFreePromotionUnitCombat>
				</FreePromotionUnitCombat>
			</FreePromotionUnitCombats>
		</TraitInfo>

2. Modify all PRO leaders to also have the PRO+ trait.

Spoiler :

Insert this in their blocks in Civ4leaderheadInfos.xml - e.g. Churchill.

			<Traits>
				<Trait>
					<TraitType>TRAIT_CHARISMATIC</TraitType>
					<bTrait>1</bTrait>
				</Trait>
				<Trait>
					<TraitType>TRAIT_PROTECTIVE</TraitType>
					<bTrait>1</bTrait>
				</Trait>
[COLOR="Red"]				<Trait>
					<TraitType>TRAIT_PROTECTIVE+</TraitType>
					<bTrait>1</bTrait>
				</Trait>[/COLOR]
			</Traits>

3. (If desired) add/update text for the civilopedia/interface. Not necessary to make it work but at least the short descriptions are helpful.

Spoiler :

I put this right at the bottom of XML/Text/Civ4GameText_Misc.xml. There's probably a more appropriate place but that's OK.

	[COLOR="Red"]<TEXT>
		<Tag>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_PROTECTIVE+</Tag>
		<English>Protective+</English>
	</TEXT>
	<TEXT>
		<Tag>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_PROTECTIVE+_SHORT</Tag>
		<English>Pro+</English>
	</TEXT>[/COLOR]
</Civ4GameText>

 

[Ghpstage]

Thats some fine bodging there Kid R!
Never knew you couldn't add unittypes-promo groups sequentially, I suppose they had no need to add it.

 

[babar]

@ Imp. Knoedel. I like your ideas but they're too complicated in terms of rebalancing and/or programming for me.

Awesome, Kid R .

Thanks anyway Ghpstage, I should have been clearer what my problem was.

 

[pandamancer]

I've been messing around with trade routes on walls (removed stone modifier, +50% all trades, -25% foreign, although +100% -80% and increased cost might be better), but I'm far from an expert on trade routes. It's not really satisfactory though for a number of reasons, particularly that I can't seem to limit it to PRO.

@babar: lately, I am also thinking about how to do that only in XML. Here is what I think you can do (it could or could not work, so still needs to verify it):

• modify the Assets/XML/buildings/CIV4BuildingInfos.xml. Add a custom building with <iForeignTradeRouteModifier> to -100 and <iTradeRouteModifier> to 100
• add a new tech (still figuring how to do this). associate that with this custom building
• modify the Assets/XML/civilizations/CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml, under the
  <DisableTechs> add the new tech for each non protective civs. For the protective civs, include the new tech under the <FreeTech> tag.
• include the building class in the <FreeBuildingClasses> tag (for every protective civs) if you want the building to be present at start.

You can ignore steps 2 and 3 if you just want the building.

Tell me if this sounds too ambitious to work

 

[pandamancer]

It's not really an assumption, it's summarising the views of many posters here. PRO kicks ass if you're an AI, not much question about it It plays really well against dumb AI attacks and smart human ones, letting them kill significantly more attackers than they would otherwise.

Plus all the AIs (as currently coded) *WILL* build lots of walls, and *WILL* beeline engineering and build lots of castles, regardless of war or peace. So the free hammers always benefit PRO AIs there too. IMO PRO is actually rather better for the AIs than AGG due to their tactical inability to get the best from attack promos.

I don't know about the hammer saved in walls and castles. Other traits like CRE or IMP also do save hammers in a way yet it helps them win the game. My view is that AIs with PRO rarely is threat over the course of time because it does not cause economic, cultural, research, military or espionage advantage over late games. In simple terms, you don't/rarely see PRO AIs as a candidate for space/cultural/military victory. Rather it is victorious for annoying the players who are going for domination or conquest

 

[pandamancer]

OK here is my final offer: Free sentry promotion on all units. Does that fulfill your criteria? Let's see...

• Snowball effect? Yes - the exploration, fogbusting and barb-defence part of the game is very important on all difficulties. Something to help there (saving a few hammers and generally assisting decision-making) is a useful early bonus. (Also nice for people who play with huts on).
• Useful deeper into the game? Yes - in all your wars you have a little tactical help. At peace post-writing and post-optics you can explore a little more effectively. And all the time generally keep an eye on SODs better to see them coming, or spot dogpile opportunities etc.
• Overpowered? Not really, sentry isn't really a game-changer just nice. And it won't help the AIs much - they get plenty of scouting anyway, and suck at tactics.
• Other benefits: Simple to explain. Simple to implement. Thematically consistent ("Forewarned is forearmed") - oops sorry I forgot we're not allowed to talk about thematic consistency any more are we?

After reconsidering again, the sentry promotion seems not bad afterall.

• snowball effect - Yes. Objectively speaking even on isolated start. Sentry allows better decisions on scouting, that would save the starting warrior/scout from being killed. So that is a trivial 30 hammers But when astronomy comes, the sentry will be useful in scouting new islands, also helping in getting the +1 navigation bonus. On the other hand on maps like highland or Pangaea, sentry is useful to see what's inside enemy capital land due to the "extra" vision (pre-writing). Do you plan to give that to settlers and workers as well? Nice! Farmers gambit looks more attractive now (sending settlers unguarded).
• take advantage of it by active means and consistent - Yes. When you scout the promotion helps you make better decisions. At war, the extra vision helps you strategically.
• overpowered - not at all. But I suggest you don't give it to all units (for example airships or submarines). Thoughts?

 

[Nexlev]

Free sentry, on non-isolated starts, would be a huge boost to worker steals. That alone would make it a very powerful addition.