Iroquois - GnK Civ Guide - Sketch Pre-War Academy post

[Calouste]

Another benefit of The Great Warpath that you haven't explicitly mentioned is that it saves a lot of worker turns.

- You don't have to build as many roads
- Workers move faster through forests going from one job to the other
- When a worker moves into a forest, it can start improving that tile that turn instead of having to wait for a turn

The worker turns you save via that is roughly the same as the 25% you get from the Pyramids.

 

[Slvynn]

Another benefit of The Great Warpath that you haven't explicitly mentioned is that it saves a lot of worker turns.

- You don't have to build as many roads
- Workers move faster through forests going from one job to the other
- When a worker moves into a forest, it can start improving that tile that turn instead of having to wait for a turn

The worker turns you save via that is roughly the same as the 25% you get from the Pyramids.

i've mentioned it in posts later, posts have some distracting effect so i though i did said that

obcourse you are right and if it is not added i'll add immidiately

It just drowned in posts below

thanks for noticing, much appreciated

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

i dont play with Iriquois much and i have a couple questions regarding the forest benefit.

1. If you put a lumber mill or improve the furs and still retain the forest, do you still get the movement bonus? Or is it just for unimproved forests? (Since i didnt see it explicitly stated Im not sure but Im assuming the improvements dont ruin the bonus. Also it seems counter-intuitive to have tree-hugging Iriquois not mind at all the existence of a ton of lumber mills, haha. But that's more for immersive game flavor.)

2. If a forest is on a hill will you get the hill movement penalty or will it override that and still let you move quicker over them?

After seeing the new Arboreal map type I really want to have some fun with an army of forest ninjas going to and fro unhindered, haha. Great write-up. I will take it to heart with my Iriquois game.

Also, I wonder if the pantheon of expanded border rate combined with other similar bonus would be good for extending your friendly area for travel. Maybe take that pantheon with Tradition opener then going full Liberty for ICS/REX type sprawl? Just a thought, albeit a hasty one, haha.

On a random side note: It would be a cool mechanic, not just for Iriquois, to be able take a city and begin re-planting trees. Since the game goes for thousands of years something like 50 or 100 years later (in turns relative to the era) you could have removed a farm or trade post and replaced it with a forest.

 

[slobberinbear]

i dont play with Iriquois much and i have a couple questions regarding the forest benefit.

1. If you put a lumber mill or improve the furs and still retain the forest, do you still get the movement bonus? Or is it just for unimproved forests? (Since i didnt see it explicitly stated Im not sure but Im assuming the improvements dont ruin the bonus. Also it seems counter-intuitive to have tree-hugging Iriquois not mind at all the existence of a ton of lumber mills, haha. But that's more for immersive game flavor.)

2. If a forest is on a hill will you get the hill movement penalty or will it override that and still let you move quicker over them?

After seeing the new Arboreal map type I really want to have some fun with an army of forest ninjas going to and fro unhindered, haha. Great write-up. I will take it to heart with my Iriquois game.

Also, I wonder if the pantheon of expanded border rate combined with other similar bonus would be good for extending your friendly area for travel. Maybe take that pantheon with Tradition opener then going full Liberty for ICS/REX type sprawl? Just a thought, albeit a hasty one, haha.

On a random side note: It would be a cool mechanic, not just for Iriquois, to be able take a city and begin re-planting trees. Since the game goes for thousands of years something like 50 or 100 years later (in turns relative to the era) you could have removed a farm or trade post and replaced it with a forest.

1. Yes
2. You get the "road" bonus whether it's on a hill, over a river, etc.

And yes, Religious Settlements is handy for the Iroquois. As is Tradition and Angkor Wat. The game does not prioritize forest tiles when figuring out "natural" border expansion, so anything to speed that up is good. You may still end up buying forest tiles 3 tiles from cities, though.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

THANKS! and total brain fart for not realizing why my spell checker still had my "Iriquois" as misspelled. I dont know what i was thinking, haha.

gonna try this on Arboreal map.

 

[Slvynn]

added 2.a part of the guide

also i will start re-formatting the article soon into official War Academy Civ Guide template, later , re-formatted it will be moved there

 

[Jabberwockxeno]

I play the Iroquois frequently and agree with the content.

I think the larger issue of not chopping is the opportunity cost in not being able to farm/trade post the tile, especially tiles that are irrigable pre-Fertilizer. Essentially, you end up with a hammer economy because all of your non-forest/non-resource tiles have to be farmed to allow growth. As a result, science is slow due to lower population. Saving trees also saves you worker-turns, possibly reducing the number of workers you will need overall.

I also agree with the prior posters re: border expansion. Tradition's base policy, Angkor Wat, or perhaps the Religious Settlements pantheon belief is almost mandatory here or you will be forced to buy a lot of tiles to hook up your cities via Warpath. Relying on Liberty and a monument to expand your borders won't be sufficient.

But unless a forest is different from jungle, don't trading posts not require the forest to be removed?

 

[Slvynn]

But unless a forest is different from jungle, don't trading posts not require the forest to be removed?

Yes, You can build TPs on Forest, and Forest will not be removed, thus granting you bonus of longhouse on Forest TP tile.

The problem that in Capital it worth to have lumber mill , which will give you edge with hammers to build commerce buildings and wonders as well. This is correct for 2-3-4th cities. If empire goes wide thru conquest there is slim chance that those forests won't be chopped , So, if map is abundant with forest, REX as wide as possible will use Forests at maximum. If forest is rare at your capital means later you wont encounter too much of it either, so you need to take it by production, which advantage may grant you wonders and shorter buildings ETAs .
So, normally you wont TP forests too much (but it may be n occasion and can be quite very good but situational) as Iroquois (puppet forest cities before you have extra happines to anex them and to build CH), because much more hammers (+2/tile) will give you more > happiness buildings > food buildings > gold tiles worked > science buildings built > gold buildings built > etc. needed to grow exponentially..

 

[Sadato]

Really well written and nice guide.

I'd like to comment that you should always chop riverside forests. Food converts fast into more citizens which bring production and science. As there are only 2 food buildings, production won't bring you more citizens. If you rely on forests your cities will be stagnant fast. You actually lose 1 food for every forest you work. Iroquese forests are better than common mines, but you still need lots of farms to grow your cities.

 

[Tabarnak]

Really well written and nice guide.

I'd like to comment that you should always chop riverside forests.

Agree with this.

It's the only civ that i would directly go for IW instead of Construction at high levels or when going for a fast domination game.

 

[Slvynn]

Really well written and nice guide.

I'd like to comment that you should always chop riverside forests. Food converts fast into more citizens which bring production and science. As there are only 2 food buildings, production won't bring you more citizens. If you rely on forests your cities will be stagnant fast. You actually lose 1 food for every forest you work. Iroquese forests are better than common mines, but you still need lots of farms to grow your cities.

Thank You.
I disagree about chopping though, at general.... You may chop 1 tile, if you see i's necessary, but normally there enough of food... food buildings + food recources + pantheons + beliefs + maritime CS.... I've gone myself thru many different Iroquois games, and i am never did chopping... And there always been enough of food. Esp. this is correct for Wonderspaming Tall build and Warmonger one, and Warmonger one which base one hi pop city, then found 3 cities, and with hi industry manages to build not only units but wonders and science and xp boosting buildings , so you manage to have quite nice CoD of hi xp units including +1 attack +1 range ranged units.

I agree though that there very rare cases when you should chop and farm. But, in my guide, it given in form that you just should prioritize growth, and i want to tell that chopping is good for Iroquois, so i better say that in 99% it is not good, and 1% will be guided by importance of food described in guide, and intelligent player will see that he need for example one extra food tile to balance the food/production issue

I will add the mention about that in some cases it could be more optimal, but again, normally it is buyed by buildings/wonders/beliefs/pantheon/Cs/city placement for food resources
I will add Tall guide soon

 

[Slvynn]

I prepearing to write article about tall game for Iroquois.
So i made example game.
The game is Immortal OCC All Victories Enabled. Another requirement for me was to build all wonders- as much as possible. Here we go, 377 turn Science Win with24-25 unique Wonders (excluding national wonders) built (and few turns from Cultural Victory)

The game was sub-optimal - i wanted to make it quick sample, so i hasted at times with moves, also watched movie with my GF simultaneously.
Also there was Atilla who killed few civs and quickly became crazy Runaway. But i killed some of his good cities, and expanded my borders with many generals i generated from countless fights.
Also i had no marble most of the game , the marble is on my city's 5th ring, so i got it at end of game.
Also i had very few forests, but i had plenty of deers around so that somewhat payed back.
Also i founded city not near mountain, cause the place near mountain was much worse to settle, and i aimed for culture win, but changed the goal in middle of the game to science, and still won without observatory.

It could be better, but alas it's just to show you my culture yields, wonders amount, and hi lvl OCC (its not deity , but with proper attention, and with more luckier Marble/No atilla/more forest start even on Deity it will be easy-peasy.) I've been forced by Atilla to go for tech rather than for earlier and easier culture - just needed more up-to date units.

 

[Jabberwockxeno]

Really well written and nice guide.

I'd like to comment that you should always chop riverside forests.

Why?

Wouldn't it make more sense to leave the forest and make a trading post, so you keep the production bonus, the trade route tile, and get the 2 gold?

You would be using all of the other non forest tiles for farms, anyways, so...

snip

...Is that a pig resource?

 

[Slvynn]

...Is that a pig resource?

i dont understand which post you quote
but perhaps.... pig it is

TP also ok for Warmonger game in some cases.... There really complex mechanism.... yes, on ideal , full forest 3 radius circle on river you could chop forests... but it is normally is not a case, so you have actually fewer forests than you would like to

 

[Jabberwockxeno]

i dont understand which post you quote
but perhaps.... pig it is

TP also ok for Warmonger game in some cases.... There really complex mechanism.... yes, on ideal , full forest 3 radius circle on river you could chop forests... but it is normally is not a case, so you have actually fewer forests than you would like to

Here, lower center of screen, by 2 silks.

Spoiler :

 

[Slvynn]

Yeah, Truffles

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

that would be Truffles. pigs sniff them out.

 

[Jabberwockxeno]

Yeah, Truffles

Is that a mod, or just a new G&K resource I haven't seen in game yet?

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

its a new resource. truffles, oranges, salt, and more are newly included.

 

[Slvynn]

2.b part - Tall game guide added. Will polish it bit more later.
Also some minor adjustments and corrections added in part 1.b