Is the AI just too peaceful/easy?

voskhod-1

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 27, 2016
Messages
11
After winning my second game on Deity level with the "Always war" option on and Conquest-only victory (both times having won during the middle-late Medieval era) I'm starting to find it a bit preposterous how peaceful the AI is. They almost never seem to care about producing military units during the early game, expand ridiculously fast to the point where unhappiness screws them over big time, and in general have very poor build orders (often times building wonders when it takes in excess of 100 turns to complete while seemingly never building sufficient military units). Basically, the AI is too peaceful. Way, way, way too peaceful. They're just city-builders. And the way I found this out (besides observing them in World Builder) is by following a certain strategy.

The strategy I've found to be a game-winner in virtually every circumstance is as follows:

1. Prioritize slavery and trade to build early slave market and village hall (and later forge)
2a. Adopt despotism / conscription (or warrior caste if you have overpopulation issues, also better in some cases due to the extra experience) and focus production on both of your cities, do not expand past 2 cities until you've annihilated all your neighbors because city-maintenance is better off spent on unit-maintenance.
2b. Make one city in particular (usually your capital but whichever city has the best nearby production resources is also best) your "primary producer" of military units. Get the population high as happiness will allow (with a buffer of 2-3 happiness for war weariness and slaves) and then let it stagnate by maxing out slaves until there's no food surplus. Use all of your great generals (you're going to have a lot of them) on this city until it eventually starts producing level-3 units, it usually takes 4 great generals to do this.
3. Build Monument of the Dictator in both cities to kill future war-weariness, also rush-research Horse Breeding to get horse archers as soon as possible. Promote all your chariots/horse archers with Looter > Strength > Shock (in that order, also switch shock with other promotions as needed)
4. Use the massive military unit production bonus plus hammers from slavery to swamp the map with fast moving chariots/later on horse archers - the AI won't be able to counter this until they get War Elephants. Prioritize pillaging as many improvements as you can to get massive cash flow from Looter and also cripple all the AI's economies (the primary goal here is to get income from pillaging to keep up your treasury deficit for the entire game)
5. Seek out and destroy workers and disband them when you capture them (preferably within your own territory to get the extra cash), don't let the AI rebuild improvements. Use the same chariots/horse archers you use to capture workers to fan out and pillage.
6. Use great commanders to concentrate your forces on a city when you need to capture - afterwards ALWAYS RAZE WITHOUT EXCEPTION (yes even if the city has a world wonder that's really nice), you won't be able to defend these cities and the city-maintenance will kill you over time, especially on Deity
7. Continue doing all of the above until you win conquest victory
8. End the game with over 2000-5000 gold in your treasury despite having 100% research slider the entire game

They have absolutely no way to counter this, what I'm going to call "Genghis Khan strategy". Mostly because War Elephants are the only feasible counter, but also because they both produce very few military units and also never seem to produce the right ones (Such as the AI mass-producing Axemen instead of Spearmen when my army, which is the most powerful in the world by far, consists almost entirely of Chariots) My second game I played with Aggressive/Ruthless AI on top of the Always War on top of Raging Barbarians and it still yielded this same result as the first game. The funniest part is that in my second game the Barbarians posed a much greater challenge than the actual AI civilizations because at least the Barbs always prioritized building military units.

Can we perhaps add an option (or improve the existing ones) that makes the AI equally as war-like as the above described strategy? Either that or just fix the fact that the AI has no way to counter early game blitzkriegs like this.
 
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Interesting strategy. Was fun to read :popcorn:

But IMO the problem is not a very poor AI (okay it always could be better but...) but your very aggressive and efficient play style.
If you're only about winning it works but at the same time you miss out a big part of the game. So I advice you to try a different strategy next time. Wonder if you could win the game with Always War OFF when the AIs form an alliance against you :groucho:
 
That's the thing though. Always War is the same as all the AIs being in an alliance against you. They're at peace with each other: Always War means they're only in a state of war with the player. Despite this, I never had any of them even try to attack my cities with anything more than a stack of 5 (five) War Elephants and a trebuchet or two - whereas I'm running circles around their countryside with 50+ horse archers

I'm also curious as to what other ways there are to play a game, if not to win?

Lastly, is this all just a matter of horse archers being really OP more than anything? Only elephant-units can actually counter them, and the AI doesn't always have access to ivory...and they almost never build spearmen for some reason.
 
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Sorry, I thought Always War means that everyone is in war with everyone else. Honestly, I never tried it.

I'm also curious as to what other ways there are to play a game, if not to win?
There are two reasons of traveling:
  1. To get to some place as quick as possible.
  2. To enjoy travel itself.
I never meant to criticize your style of play of course, just I would get bored with the game that way.

For me this game is an empire simulator. I want to build up an empire that covers the whole map by the end of the trans-human era. I want to solve the problems that arouse and not just eliminate it :crazyeye:

Have you tried High to Low? Maybe that would give you more challenge.
 
I guess I have a question. How do people usually play this game? Me, personally, I have never actually made it past the Medieval age because I'm always the #1 world power by then and have eclipsed all the other empires. I actually want to get into the Industrial era but I feel like I can never find a way to keep the game interesting up until that point without deliberately just restraining myself (which usually isn't fun).

How do you do it? Keep the game interesting past the Medieval era I mean - after you've snowballed into near-infinity. Is High to Low usually a good option for that?
 
Also your strategy only works on pangea and smaller maps- and even then, I don't think that what is interesting about ROM:And is winning, but building your empire. Changing civs (high to low, enable the cheat mode to change civs) is also a very good way to keep the challenge

Edit: the way I keep it fun is playing on big maps and high to low on emperor with revolutions and barb civ enable. It can get really challenging if you don't manage to change fast civs
 
Revolutions is fun, so is barb-civs, I always play with both enabled. The only problem is big maps. I kind of don't like playing on anything larger than Small w/ low sea levels to compensate for less land. Mostly because I find that Normal sized maps and larger start having unbearably long turn times near the end of the Classical era. Is there any way past that?
 
Well one thing I can point out is that using Great Commanders is going to hurt the AI real badly, and remove a lot of challenge from the game just by selecting the option.

Along with Revolutions, this is a game option that royally screws over the AI and cripples them horribly, possibly even more so than Revolutions since it's something the player can use to make an army immortal while the AI simply does not know how to use them. Heck, I see them just hole up in cities or even be sent out as scouts without any military units accompanying it! They never use the GC-unique promotions either. While it won't help much with poor AI priorities or anything, you can step up the difficulty quite a bit by not playing with the Great Commander option.

The Ruthless AI option is supposedly there to make them more warlike, but I've found it ends up hurting them indirectly as well... Not as badly as Revolutions and Great Commanders though.
 
Wasn't sure if the AI could use GC's or not, apparently not. I only use them to assault cities though. What other options should I look out for that make the game easy? I imagine the AI also can't handle Surround and Destroy?
 
Wasn't sure if the AI could use GC's or not, apparently not. I only use them to assault cities though. What other options should I look out for that make the game easy? I imagine the AI also can't handle Surround and Destroy?

Correct. They can't handle it because they don't know about it and can't plan to take advantage of it. Great Commanders, Ruthless AI, Revolutions, they all mess with the game in some way that gives the player a lopsided advantage.
 
Correct. They can't handle it because they don't know about it and can't plan to take advantage of it. Great Commanders, Ruthless AI, Revolutions, they all mess with the game in some way that gives the player a lopsided advantage.

I figured as much about the others, but how does Ruthless AI give the player a lopsided advantage?
 
Well one thing I can point out is that using Great Commanders is going to hurt the AI real badly, and remove a lot of challenge from the game just by selecting the option.

Along with Revolutions, this is a game option that royally screws over the AI and cripples them horribly, possibly even more so than Revolutions since it's something the player can use to make an army immortal while the AI simply does not know how to use them. Heck, I see them just hole up in cities or even be sent out as scouts without any military units accompanying it! They never use the GC-unique promotions either. While it won't help much with poor AI priorities or anything, you can step up the difficulty quite a bit by not playing with the Great Commander option.

The Ruthless AI option is supposedly there to make them more warlike, but I've found it ends up hurting them indirectly as well... Not as badly as Revolutions and Great Commanders though.
Revolutions can also be a very serious challenge if you toggle them in the rigth way. the only problem i have with them is that they aren't treatening once you get a good army,as in AND there are a lot more units, but i don't think revolutions take this into account
 
Mod is really not designed to be played on any map smaller than standard at least, better large. You obviously find it easy because you can reach every civ on a small map before middle age: that's how many civs? 8?9? Try a large map, continents or pw or similar and then let me know. Also try flexible difficulty and flexible AI. I suspect you won't be that quick to kill your opponents. As for turn times, the longest I've got was 5 minutes per turn which is insane but it was on an experimental map with more than 2x the number of tiles of a gigantic map, in modern era (marathon speed), 40 civs at least, and my pc is 7 years old.
 
I stopped using Great Commanders because (as was already mentioned above) they made my army almost immortal. I suggest that turn them off if you want more challenge.

I also was under the impression that Always War meant everyone was at war with everyone, not just allied against the human.

I too suggest you try a different map type. I like Perfect Mongoose or Totestra, with slight changes to make it produce large areas of desert and ice which can't be (usefully) settled, and more mountain ranges.
 
I stopped using Great Commanders because (as was already mentioned above) they made my army almost immortal. I suggest that turn them off if you want more challenge.

I also was under the impression that Always War meant everyone was at war with everyone, not just allied against the human.

I too suggest you try a different map type. I like Perfect Mongoose or Totestra, with slight changes to make it produce large areas of desert and ice which can't be (usefully) settled, and more mountain ranges.

Always War just means that you automatically declare war on any nation you meet and are unable to revoke that. If an event or anything else would force peace, it immediately re-declares. It doesn't affect the AI themselves.

The only way to emulate an "Everyone is at war with everyone else" situation is to play with the Permanent War or Peace option and then go into Diplomacy at the game start and toggle war with everyone. Of course this doesn't affect newly spawning empires....
 
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