Is this cheating?

[marceagleye]

I used an auto-save in my current game when my top three cities went into civil disorder.

I had twelve citizens each in my top three cities. I have three luxuries. Two I own. The third I just began importing from the Celts on the previous turn. Prior to that I was using the lux slider at 10%. When I got the third lux from Brennus I was able to stop paying for parties. My top three cities balanced out on citizen happiness and I boosted research to 50%. The cities were building two banks and Smith's Trading Company.

The previous turn Brennus came out of nowhere on a continent I didn't even know of and offered incense for gems and i took it. i also met the English, French and Spanish from this distant continent and made a bunch of trades with them, too. They were technologically advanced compared to me and the rest of the civs on my continent.

I went to the next turn. A few citizen moves in cities and worker improvement moves...nothing major. Research and production is going good. I click next turn.

"England declared war on the Celts!" Okay. AI units animate. "Salamanca is in civil disorder!" "Cattaraugus is in civil disorder!" "Oil Springs is in civil disorder!" What the../?@#!!

I double click my capital and see I'm not getting any incense. I scan Celts' entire coast on my brand new map and see he's got no harbor any where. Could he have been using Liz's harbor to trade with me? Or did his harbor get disbanded because he went bankrupt? I wasn't sure because I didn't check when i first got the map. I accepted lux trade from him before I had a map of his territory. I tried to get his territory map too but I couldn't. I got it from the Spanish in world map trade after.

Anyway I was so mad, I reloaded the previous turn and tried to trade with other civs for other luxs but couldn't. So I bumped the lux slider back up to 10% and continued my game.

Did I cheat? Since they cheated me I felt justified. Was I?

 

[NeonInfusion]

most people would say it would be an exploit, but i dont think so. it may be "bending" the parameters of the game to go back in time, but if you get the urge, i guess its ok. maybe...

 

[wilbill]

It's one of those things that happens. Certainly in an MP game, you wouldn't have the opportunity to reload. In GOTM, it's cheating. In your own game, it's up to you.

 

[Alexnm]

You were not cheating, you were in search of the lost fun.

 

[cookie_monster]

Im very careful of trade routes before they can go over the sea, cos when there broken it can hurt your rep. To use a reload to get out of a mistake is normal. But not when you know all the consequences.

 

[Turner]

This is one of those grey areas. . . I think this came up a couple of weeks ago, but it was reloading something else. . . In any event, consider it a lesson: Be careful how you trade. . .

It sucks. It really does. But it does make sense that the Celts and English are at war and the celts can't use the English harbors.

I stand by what I said in the last thread: It's your game, knock yourself out. If that's what you want to do to make your game enjoyable. . . who likes losing?

 

[marceagleye]

Seeing how big and advanced the English and French are, I doubt I'll win this one. It is indeed a lesson. Next time I won't trade any resources or luxuries until I have a map of their territory FIRST. If their ability to trade with me is dependent on use of a neighbor's infrastructure, then I might not do it.

I wouldn't have reloaded if the civil disorder was my fault. The cities went into civil disorder between turns and I had no opportunity to make adjustments. It seems funny though because the game DOES give you the opportunity to make adjustments when a 20 turn deal expires. That's why I don't understand it. I know that when a city goes into civil disorder because of population growth you have that turn to make adjustments to prevent it from burning.

At least now I know the recording of your cities' food, shields, and commerce happen AFTER the AIs take their turn.

 

[Frisian Warrior]

"I used an auto-save in my current game..."
No need to read further to answer the question. The end confirms it. As a rule of thumb, perhaps one could one ask "Can the AI do this?" when contemplating strategies. Anything involving a reload is then obviously cheating.

In this case, you could and should have known about the possible break in the trade link and following disorder. It is all part of the nature of world economy. Many people find this unfair, and likewise the reputation hit you take when a trading parther is destroyed. But fair and unfair are not absolute values, you can also choose to find an additional responsibility in ensuring the life of a trading partner even without Mutual Protection Pacts.

 

[anarres]

Hmm....















...Yep.

 

[Gainy]

Since you felt you had to ask if it was cheating or not, i say it is cheating. It depends on your standards (as stated by Willbill and Turner), and seeing as you have had to ask this question, you must feel that it is wrong... that you cheated... etc. So yes.

 

[sealman]

anytime you re-play a turn you are cheating.

 

[vanderbilt_grad]

Originally posted by sealman
anytime you re-play a turn you are cheating.

I Disagree.

 

[Spike59]

Sort of like the golden rule. Whoever shelled out the gold ($39.99) makes the rules. Unless you are trying to impress someone with your abilities, do what it takes to enjoy yourself.

Personally, I rarely reload. I also stay at a lower difficulty level than I probably should.

Your money, your game, your rules.

 

[Veers]

When isn't reloading cheating?

 

[MadScot]

Originally posted by Veers
When isn't reloading cheating?

When it isnb't motivated by a desire to improve upon the results of your play.

Examples:

Saving a game at a critical decision point, then playing out both games from that point, as a what-if investigation. I wonder what would have happened had I not made that strategic choice.

To recover from a purely interface problem. Accidentally accepting 1gpt instead of 100gpt, or gifting a key tech instead of hitting the "what will you offer?" option. 'Finger trouble' reloads are not a case of "oh, bad decision, try something else" but "bad interface design, that's not what I wanted". You aren't trying to change the result, you're doing what you meant to do the first time.

Reload from massive crash - especially if you try to do the same moves as before, to the best of your ability.

It's only cheating if you are seeking to exploit your knowledge of events to create another reality, IMHO.

 

[Padma]

Originally posted by Veers
When isn't reloading cheating?

Reloading is only cheating when you are playing/comparing against others, e.g., GOTM, MultiPlayer, etc. When you are playing SP, all by yourself, you should just do whatever makes the game more fun for you.

For me, I get the most fun out of "Iron Man": I don't reload. Ever. If I move a unit incorrectly, or attack with the wrong unit, or whatever, I just chalk it up to the realities of life: garbled orders, or other types of miscommunication.

 

[Veers]

Iron Man is the best way - - - you don't learn anything by reloading. "What if" scenarios will eventually play out in one of your games. It’s good to be surprised - - - -

 

[MadScot]

Disagree strongly with the statement that reloading doesn't allow you to learn anything.

Firstly, there are so many variables that it's unlikely that anything other than the same general conditions will occur again.

Secondly, almost all of the uncovering of the workings of the game by various demented individuals has been based on either test scenarios or reloads, with the former being an implicit reload. The game is too complex to conduct other than the most carefully controlled experiments.

Of course, if the menual were not only useful if you are suffering a shortage of toilet paper - they could have used softer paper, surely - people wouldn't have to resort to such things....

 

[sourboy]

It's a game. You're playing against the comp. Comp's are eventually predictable, so you're really playing against yourself - but it is still a game. You play for fun.

If the comp pisses you off due to something unusual like that, reload - who cares? You don't have to ask permission from this committee!

Some folks here will say you are cheating - they are the type who want to win gloriously and thrive on the difficulties that they need to overcome in order to win.

Other folks will say it's ok to reload - because it's your game, and you can play it the way you want to. Even Firaxis knows this, that's why there are adjustable settings for the random map generator, an editor for customizing a map/units/etc, and an auto-save feature that goes back more then just the previous turn - so you can reload it if you want to!

 

[Veers]

Games have rules, one of the rules of Civ is not to reload. Unwritten or not, everyone knows this. Chess is a game too and I'd love to see someone explain away why he or she moved their piece back. It wouldn’t work - - people will kill over chess. In the end, though, it’s up the player – it’s their choice how they want to learn. Reloading didn’t occur to me until I read it on the web years ago - - - I learned Civ with a friend and we accepted, painfully sometimes, what the computer dealt us. It didn’t even occur to us to reload. Cheating is cheating and if you cheat in a game, you’ll cheat anywhere else.