Israel to stop Jordanian Nuclear Power?

[Rumilus]

Israel should say that it does not object to Jordan having nuclear power or it should object in public.

This is really great. Refusal to comment allegations to press is proof of wrongdoing and wickedness? Wow, there sure is a lot of guilty people out there.

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While apparently there is no connection between Israel and Judaism and there are Jews who criticise Israel, I still don't know what the Jews actually really did that leads to this perfectly justified criticism.

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

This is really great. Refusal to comment allegations to press is proof of wrongdoing and wickedness? Wow, there sure is a lot of guilty people out there.

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While apparently there is no connection between Israel and Judaism and there are Jews who criticise Israel, I still don't know what the Jews actually really did that leads to this perfectly justified criticism.

Uhhh... you're the only one to have brought up Jews in this thread. Everyone else has been talking about Israel. Are you really that unable to tell the difference between the two?

 

[Silurian]

Rumilus@

It depends on who makes the allegation.

The head of state of Jordan is justified in trying to stop Israel interfering in the development of his country.

Are there any security implications for Israel in denying the allegations.

 

[Tee Kay]

I still don't know what the Jews actually really did that leads to this perfectly justified criticism.

Read the OP. King Abdullah of Jordan is accusing Israel of trying to persuade contractors not to build a nuclear power plant in his country. If Israel is really doing this, instead of raising the issue with Jordan diplomatically, then Israel is at fault here.

 

[Oishi]

Read the OP. King Abdullah of Jordan is accusing Israel of trying to persuade contractors not to build a nuclear power plant in his country. If Israel is really doing this, instead of raising the issue with Jordan diplomatically, then Israel is clearly at fault here.

If you look at this topic in Israeli perspective, you would see that there's nothing wrong here. Why? It's simple. They don't want their technologically inferior neighbors to build something that they think will rival their own. Even I would do that, for the sake of protecting my people.

 

[Tee Kay]

If you look at this topic in Israeli perspective, you would see that there's nothing wrong here. Why? It's simple. They don't want their technologically inferior neighbors to build something that they think will rival their own. Even I would do that, for the sake of protecting my people.

Ah, but you don't admit to this sort of thing. You just broke the rule.

 

[Oishi]

Ah, but you don't admit to this sort of thing. You just broke the rule.

My last post was a mess of conflicting ideas. Anyways, I put my faith in this capitalist world we live in, and in the seemingly endless bidding process.

 

[Rumilus]

It depends on who makes the allegation.

The head of state of Jordan is justified in trying to stop Israel interfering in the development of his country.

Are there any security implications for Israel in denying the allegations.

The head of state of Jordan might be justified in trying to stop Israel interfering in the development of his country but we don't actually have any idea what this interfering is. The criticism is towards Israel so no one even apparently wants to ask what they actually did before judging them. Are you able to tell me what they actually really did?

As for not commenting the allegations, I don't know how it is where you are, but if there is a situation with a foreign country in here Finland, the goverment and foreign ministry often refuses to comment on the situation while it's still ongoing.

Read the OP. King Abdullah of Jordan is accusing Israel of trying to persuade contractors not to build a nuclear power plant in his country. If Israel is really doing this, instead of raising the issue with Jordan diplomatically, then Israel is at fault here.

You seemed to have missed my earlier post completely if you don't realise my objection:
- open hostility towards the Jewish state
- lack of any criticism towards the source (compare this with the criticism towards anything coming from Israeli or Jewish sources)
- lack of knowledge over what Israel or Israeli companies actually did doesn't seem to prevent jumping the gun

 

[Silurian]

If you look at this topic in Israeli perspective, you would see that there's nothing wrong here. Why? It's simple. They don't want their technologically inferior neighbors to build something that they think will rival their own. Even I would do that, for the sake of protecting my people.

You may have hit the nail on its head.

But if Israel carries out economic attacks on its neighbours will this help the security Israel in the long run, I think not.
If Israel is shown to be deliberately holding back its neighbours economically it will make legitimate security issues harder to pursue.

 

[Tee Kay]

You seemed to have missed my earlier post completely if you don't realise my objection:
- open hostility towards the Jewish state

This is hostility on valid grounds I think. I dislike Israel not because I dislike Jews, or just for the sake of hating Israel. I think it's the same for most people on this forum.

- lack of any criticism towards the source (compare this with the criticism towards anything coming from Israeli or Jewish sources)

People criticize the source if they think there is a valid criticism. If you want to criticise the source, find a valid reason.

- lack of knowledge over what Israel or Israeli companies actually did doesn't seem to prevent jumping the gun

We discuss on the basis of what we know.

 

[Rumilus]

This is hostility on valid grounds I think. I dislike Israel not because I dislike Jews, or just for the sake of hating Israel. I think it's the same for most people on this forum.

People criticize the source if they think there is a valid criticism. If you want to criticise the source, find a valid reason.

We discuss on the basis of what we know.

When hostility and witch hunt mentality is valid over mere allegations and there is no source criticism along with complete inability to provide any factual information what Israel did, there is not much more I really need to say.

 

[Silurian]

From The WSJ

Those moves are stoking tensions with neighboring Israel.

In the interview, King Abdullah said Israel has been pressuring countries like South Korea and France not to sell nuclear technologies to Jordan. He said Israel's "underhanded" actions have helped bring Jordan-Israeli relations to their lowest point since a 1994 peace agreement.

"There are countries, Israel in particular, that are more worried about us being economically independent than the issue of nuclear energy, and have been voicing their concerns," King Abdullah said. "There are many such reactors in the world and a lot more coming, so [the Israelis must] go mind their own business."

The WSJ tends to report quotes accurately

From Haaretz

"

The reactors we are looking at are Generation III-plus, which is by far the safest and most capable technology. It is safe from earthquakes, natural disasters, terrorist attacks. The technology we are looking at is one, if not two, generations ahead of what you have. We will, and we all should, be transparent when it comes to nuclear energy," Abdullah told Haaretz.

When asked when this transparency also applies to neighboring Israel, Abdullah said: "Everybody. The problem that we have when it comes to the nuclear issue is that there is no transparency."

"It's sort of a dark subject. And that applies to Israel as it applies to other countries. I think we are trying to be the model of how to do the process correctly," Abdullah said.

Or maybe Israel does not want an open nuclear generating state as a neighbour.

 

[Tee Kay]

When hostility and witch hunt mentality is valid over mere allegations and there is no source criticism along with complete inability to provide any factual information what Israel did, there is not much more I really need to say.

As I said, we discuss over what we know.

And I did say, "if it is true".

And if you have a valid criticism of the source then I'd like to hear it.

Would you trust an Israeli newspaper more than the BBC? Here's Haaretz.

 

[Rumilus]

The source of the allegations is Jordan. Not Haaretz or BBC. If BBC reports Israeli claims do people accept them just like that?

And I did say, "if it is true".

The if doesn't seem to stop hostility as well as the criticism according to your earlier quote being valid. And I don't see any ifs or buts before my initial criticism, just your usual "bleeb" Israel hate along with the standard demonising attempts. If you have the need to put ifs in between then why earlier agree with the criticism aswell as argue with me?

 

[Formaldehyde]

So one must prove that Israel is actually engaging in the behavior which is widely reported, but the defenders of continuing atrocities and absurd foreign policy can merely insinuate that it all must be due to bigotry and anti-Semitism?

 

[Tee Kay]

If BBC reports Israeli claims do people accept them just like that?

The OP and the last couple of posts deals specifically with the King's allegations. Yes, they're reports from a news source. Would you like HM King Abdullah II to come to your house and state his allegations for you personally?

The if doesn't seem to stop hostility as well as the criticism according to your earlier quote being valid. And I don't see any ifs or buts before my initial criticism, just your usual "bleeb" Israel hate along with the standard demonising attempts. If you have the need to put ifs in between then why earlier agree with the criticism aswell as argue with me?

I said it before - we discuss over what we know. And goddamn it, how is suggesting that Israel should bring up such issues diplomatically (post 5, page 1) is somehow "Israel hate" and "standard demonising attempts"? In your eyes, when people criticize Israel it must be because they're bigoted and anti-Semetic. One can criticize African dictatorships without being a racist or the United States foreign policy without being seen as a bigot, but for some reason criticizing Israel must mean one advocates carting Jews to the gas chambers?

 

[Rumilus]

The OP and the last couple of posts deals specifically with the King's allegations. Yes, they're reports from a news source. Would you like HM King Abdullah II to come to your house and state his allegations for you personally?

Way to purposefully dodge the point. All the information is basically from the same source, Jordan. I want some other source than vague Jordanian claims.

I said it before - we discuss over what we know. And goddamn it, how is suggesting that Israel should bring up such issues diplomatically (post 5, page 1) is somehow "Israel hate" and "standard demonising attempts"? In your eyes, when people criticize Israel it must be because they're bigoted and anti-Semetic. One can criticize African dictatorships without being a racist or the United States foreign policy without being seen as a bigot, but for some reason criticizing Israel must mean one advocates carting Jews to the gas chambers?

Are you truly claiming there was no real Israel/Jew hate and standard demonising attempts before my initial criticism?

Israel should say that it does not object to Jordan having nuclear power or it should object in public.

Btw, from Haaretz:

Israeli sources told Haaretz in response that Israel is not opposed to Jordan's nuclear program; its sole concern is the proliferation of nuclear material, and hence what kind of security any reactors built in Jordan will have.

Seems Israel does not oppose Jordan's nuclear program.

 

[Tee Kay]

Way to purposefully dodge the point. All the information is basically from the same source, Jordan. I want some other source than vague Jordanian claims.

But this discussion revolves around Jordan, concerns Israel's actions towards Jordan and based on Jordan's allegations...

Are you truly claiming there was no real Israel/Jew hate and standard demonising attempts before my initial criticism?

I cannot speak for other posters. However I can definitely say that my posts had no anti-Semitic intent whatsoever.

I define anti-Semetism as bigoted hatred of Jews. Your definition seem to cover every criticism of Israel ever.

Seems Israel does not oppose Jordan's nuclear program.

So it seems you suspect anything that Jordan says but takes everything Israel says at face value.

 

[Silurian]

from Haaretz

Israeli sources told Haaretz in response that Israel is not opposed to Jordan's nuclear program; its sole concern is the proliferation of nuclear material, and hence what kind of security any reactors built in Jordan will have.

Jordan is a stable country and a member of the NPT.

The reactors that the American contractors and operators build will be designed to produce electricity and heat for desalinisation not plutonium

I can not see Westinghouse secretly building Nuclear Weapons for Jordan.

 

[Tee Kay]

Jordan is a stable country and a member of the NPT.

A M00$LIM country can never be a stable country.