Jon Shafer leaves Firaxis!

Did you read my previous post regarding IP rights? I was providing some information on IP rights which does not excuse Firaxis from the flaws in Civ5, even if it's an "implementation" issue.

Also, from what I understand about software development, a developer is akin to a service provider, while the publisher is akin to the client. The client set the budget and the deadlines, and other marketing terms, perhaps even the integration with Steam, but the client cannot dictate how to design or implement the product, as long as the terms initially agred upon has been fulfilled. That is not to say that the client has no way to influence the development cycle, but the main control lies with the developer, SO IS the responsibility.

Although many people simply perceived that T2 outright owns Firaxis, and that may be the case depends on how you look at it, but T2 has nothing to gain by having a half-baked product from Firaxis. If my understand of publishers remain valid today, they are all about profit. That means the development cycle must comform to their deadline and budget. That most often than not has an unhealthy influence on the game development cycle, as developer instinctively has the impression that they are under tight budget and short deadline.

However, that said, it is still the developer responsibility to deliver a reasonable product (and no, Civ5 is not a reasonable product), and come'on, do you believe T2 actually is responsible for bad design call like having maintenance for road for aesthetic reason or having "mysterious" diplomacy?

And in response to your other statement about another developer working on a civilization game, it is a real possibility, but it will not be branded as a civilization game. T2 will most likely take the code base, give it to another game studio, and rebrand the product, and we'll never know it is from the same code base if they don't tell us.
 
Civ 5 seems a moderate commercial success. The fact you guys don't like it is not too important to Firaxis, and completely unimportant to Take Two.
 
Civ 5 seems a moderate commercial success. The fact you guys don't like it is not too important to Firaxis, and completely unimportant to Take Two.

And you can make this claim because you represent them?

But fair enough. CiV does seem to sell well, and I can proudly say I am dumb enough to have contributed to the sales figure.

I personally have no interest in what Firaxis or T2 might think. I am more interested in finding other empire building games to play.

Oh, and be rest assured that I will not buy Civ6.
 
So here's the million dollar question, are you one of the people who can DO anything with ciV? If not, on what grounds are you asking for constructive feedback?

On forums, or most of them anyway, asking for and providing constructive feedback more often than not is just a way for poster to sound mature and intellectual, while in actual fact they are seldom either of those things.

So the simple answer is (if you skipped the complex part above), constructive feedback is as effective as "vitriol" in this particular environment, and I will stick to my favorite brand of sulfuric acid, unless I see one of the developer asking for constructive feedback.

Having been a member here for many years, I would say there is no better place to offer constructive criticism than these forums. To answer your question: Yes, I have made several scenarios for both civ3 and civ4. Jon Shafer - the thread's topic - is a member here. All of the mods that I have ever downloaded came from the people in this forum. Most of the solutions that will find their way into eventual patches and expansions will come from these forums. This is the best place to offer constructive criticism. At least it was, before the wind blew hundreds of red herring posts into every thread...

Please do not insult me or my intelligence. There is no call for it, and the rules of this forum expressly prohibit it.
 
Having been a member here for many years, I would say there is no better place to offer constructive criticism than these forums. To answer your question: Yes, I have made several scenarios for both civ3 and civ4. Jon Shafer - the thread's topic - is a member here. All of the mods that I have ever downloaded came from the people in this forum. Most of the solutions that will find their way into eventual patches and expansions will come from these forums. This is the best place to offer constructive criticism. At least it was, before the wind blew thousands of red herring posts into every thread...

Please do not insult me or my intelligence. There is no call for it, and the rules of this forum expressly prohibit it.

Fine, I apologize for being snarky.

are you making a mod with some specific goals in mind or you are just being generic? I cannot provide critically useful thoughts without a clear goal in mind. If you start a thread (or have a thread already) maybe I'll chip in.

I personally do not believe in providing feedback to empty air, so if you are saying you want to do something then I am providing feedback to YOU.

I personally don't care that Jon came from this forum or whatever. Now that he has left the company, he belongs in the category that cannot Do anything to the product, nor the franchise.

I am also well aware that Civ4 BTS patch 3.17 has many ideas which was first tried and used in user developed mod. However, as I have stated before, I don't believe it is our duty to provide such things to the developer. If they want such goodies from the community, they should at least ASK for it.

You know there is no shame in a developer who grovels before its customers asking for good ideas and feedbacks. I'll be much more loyal to the developers who care about what I think than the high and mighty. And the impression I get right now of Firaxis is that they don't really care about what we, as fans, really think and feel. And that honestly is what makes me angry in the first place.

Anyway, I do feel sorry for being snarky. I am not usually this edgy. I am just REALLY REALLY frustrated with my huge disappointment over CiV and I'll admit one of the reason I still lurk this forum is to let off some steam.

And anyone deemed defending the evil Firaxis is being picked on by me. :cool:
 
are you making a mod with some specific goals in mind or you are just being generic? I cannot provide critically useful thoughts without a clear goal in mind. If you start a thread (or have a thread already) maybe I'll chip in.

I understand your feelings. I was also disappointed with the release of civ5, as well as its current state. What I have found is that my pace of work on mods is too slow, and by the time I get halfway through something - another CivFanatic has completed something better.

I'm working on a "Western World" mod right now, but it is only in the basic planning stages. I'm waiting to see what smarter people, (or people who code for a living), (or, god forbid, Firaxis) do to solve the AI problem. I imagine that we will either see a different AI code in the near future, or a return to Civ4-style Stacks Of Doom/limited SOD. I would use whichever model the community adopts.

For now, I'm just lurking around threads where I see these problems being addressed:

ie:
DUCKS: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=391739
AI: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=404780
Kruelgor: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=390123
Rhye: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=387373
 
Yup, non-disclosure agreement and a generic "We both decided to go in different directions" press release. Which means he was probably fired. If not, then he's bailing instead of working to fix a game that is still largely unplayable, but still has additional Civs available for almost $4.00 each!

Can everyone finally admit that CiV is a colossal failure?

no . I think its good . So do alot of others.
 
$4 Civ DLC is just shameful. The suits at T2 have driven their sick and stained hands into the franchise.
 
Wow, this is not a good sign.

I'm still yet to upgrade my computer to the specs required so I have not played Civ 5 as yet.

If the game is as unplayable as everyone says and it has the name 'Sid Meier' on it, then the course of action most companies would take is to fire the guy who designed it (For PR purposes I'm sure it's an amicable parting.

It would seem to me that anyone who takes on being the head designer for a Civ game takes a huge gamble. It could be a great game that has been tested week after week like Civ 4 was (in this instance Soren Johnson was praised for his efforts and Sid Meiers name is associated with it). Or you can create a game that has programming issues and you get to be the scapegoat for Sid Meier (In this case, Jon Shafer)

It comes down to companies being companies. They stuffed up and someone had to pay the price (although it may be justified).

Anyway I look forward to upgrading my computer soon to see for myself first hand how the game plays (You'd think as a programmer myself I might already have upgradded my computer lol).:crazyeye:
 
I wonder here he turns up after this. Will he bounce back and make a good game or continue with mediocrity?
 
I wonder here he turns up after this. Will he bounce back and make a good game or continue with mediocrity?

I think that where he ends up and what he ends up doing will tell us a lot about why he left. What person leaves a steady job in this sort of economy without a nice place to go?
 
I wonder here he turns up after this. Will he bounce back and make a good game or continue with mediocrity?

IDK, the mediocrity seems to be a Firaxis thing, not just Jon. Just take a good look at their past mistakes.
 
In case you haven't yet, you should read Sulla's review of post-patch Civ5.

This is powerful stuff. You may have read it before, but I hadn't. Given his argument, I think that 1UPT was a mistake, and that a limited stack might have been the way to go. Since 1UPT was Jon's thing, and it seems to be the root cause of many problems, then the departure of Jon might be good for Civ5.

I feel kind of depressed now... :(
 
lol

he left because he is like a smart guy- does the job- moves on

an entreprenuer -they do that

but what was really funny was that review linked

yapp'n about civ4 on and on - yeah that makes alot of sense

lol
 
the review by Sulla was well written, thoughtful, to the point, and barely mentioned civ4.

Also, the section written by Luddite concerning 1upt and its problems were dead on and succinctly put.

They put into words what i have been feeling about civ5. Thanks guys!
 
Well, it's relevant to the question of what they might do in the future with either Civ 5 or the Civ franchise. Which people, including you, were speculating about.

Ahhh, but you misunderstood the value of speculation! Speculation is simply a form of entertainment. It's like speculating the next episode of a popular drama. I don't care what is the result of my speculation as long as I get to speculate!

For me at least.
 
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