Kuriotates ... and their wortless expansion

[zup]

How about giving Kuriotate settlements all the capabilities of a city but they can to only work only the adjacent 8 squares? Or like normal cities of other civilizations. They are supposed to be builders, right? Afaik their frontier territory has very little industry (lorewise) but zero industry? Their core cities are supposedAlso I want my choke point settlements (one square wide mountain pass) to have defense and healing buildings (aka invincible garrison).

Before you tell me what I already know "This will OP Kuriotates", notice that I want to crush my enemies (I play sp) under my boot heel like tiny insects. I want my capital (because I am a capital builder, ALWAYS god king) to have all wonders, make my civ/religion heroes in my capital only when they will get the maximum free exp/promos. . .. .. .. . the ai for stealing my Rosier, Sphener etc! So far I have yet make Eurabatres once, but when I do he must completely overwhelm everybody!

Hmmmm I am not so sure about Rosier this game though, I had to convert RoK and FoL for the unique techs and Order to make my vampires neutral (FF aligment style) to make Altar of the Luonnotar. So I can't train him currently. Now that I think of it, he can get all the promotions he likes once I gift him vampirism, wasted possiblities ...

 

[Konstantin XI]

Hey there,

If you want to crush enemies like bugs, don't choose Kuriotates, or tailor them to your own liking via XML, but seriously, this idea isn't even worth considering for a patch.

 

[xanaqui42]

Before you tell me what I already know "This will OP Kuriotates", notice that I want to crush my enemies (I play sp) under my boot heel like tiny insects.

I haven't had much problem doing this as Kuriotates, although I crush fewer enemies than I do as other civilizations. Basically, you need to focus on fewer, stronger units (or units that are force multipliers). What do you find to be the problem?

Also, note that Settlements can get a number of buildings. They just can't build buildings.

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Well I think they should at least be allowed to grow as much as their single tile will let them, but not allowed to work other tiles in the fat cross. This way they still get the flavor of a small settlement without completely nerfing them...

Edit: AND be allowed to build what they can in their small settlements. This way the can at least build a small garrison with a few culture modifiers. This would be good for captured cities with useful wonders like those that give sentry, etc.

 

[Arcite36575]

For me, I like it the way it is. My computer is pretty crappy now, and for most games, the second half has too much micromangement along with stressing out my computer. Playing as a civ with only three cities to worry about is a refreshing change once in a while.

 

[Keeper_GFA]

I'll mostly second Avahz, except to say let them have their city tile and the one worked tile as well. Settlements are already able to have wonder and spell granted buildings, they can use specialists, they generate culture, and (to a lesser extent) commerce and research. It doesn't seem like much of a leap to have settlements treated as permanent pop 1 cities. Being able to build a holy city wonders in a "holy settlement" would be nice too.

 

[Kael]

Well I think they should at least be allowed to grow as much as their single tile will let them, but not allowed to work other tiles in the fat cross. This way they still get the flavor of a small settlement without completely nerfing them...

Edit: AND be allowed to build what they can in their small settlements. This way the can at least build a small garrison with a few culture modifiers. This would be good for captured cities with useful wonders like those that give sentry, etc.

You'd bork the AI. They would start a wonder in one of their settlements and now be unable to build it in any of their real cities because of it. Likewise on trying to churn out just about anything and break code that looks to make sure the civs has ro is building X in a certain number of cities (like making sure their is a hunting lodge somewhere for upgrades).

The short version is I hear what you are saying but turning off production entirely is more elegant, easier and better for the AI to deal with.

Now we just have to figure out a way to deal with Kuriotate empires without a coastal real city.

 

[Marchwik]

I have one question:

What about Kuriotates with advanced start???? U cannot build more than 2 cities even in huge map because U don't know nothing about terrain around You,and U have possibility to build only a cities with AS.It is possible to change that and build settlements around first cities with some lower points cost?

 

[TheJopa]

You'd bork the AI. They would start a wonder in one of their settlements and now be unable to build it in any of their real cities because of it. Likewise on trying to churn out just about anything and break code that looks to make sure the civs has ro is building X in a certain number of cities (like making sure their is a hunting lodge somewhere for upgrades).

The short version is I hear what you are saying but turning off production entirely is more elegant, easier and better for the AI to deal with.

Now we just have to figure out a way to deal with Kuriotate empires without a coastal real city.

Well Kael, why don't we cut out fishing boats and let naval resources be obtained as soon as they are inside borders, and not blocked by enemy ships. It's much more elegant solution for seas and gives sea a difference from the land terrain, and also fixes Kuriotates.

I never really liked the 'just like workers, but on sea' idea

 

[xanaqui42]

Now we just have to figure out a way to deal with Kuriotate empires without a coastal real city.

My thought would be to treat settlements kind of like how Ruins and Graveyards (or Planar Gates) are treated - essentially, allow them to rarely pop a unit or building from a small list, at random. Perhaps something like the following:

• Warrior
• Archer
• Longbow
• Obelisk
• Workboat
• Caravel
• Galleon
• Palisade
• Temple (of current state religion)

 

[fuzzy_bunnies]

Well Kael, why don't we cut out fishing boats and let naval resources be obtained as soon as they are inside borders, and not blocked by enemy ships. It's much more elegant solution for seas and gives sea a difference from the land terrain, and also fixes Kuriotates.

I never really liked the 'just like workers, but on sea' idea

Not sure this is the real problem... I believe the primary issue with not having a coastal city is the inability to build a ship and therefore the inability to invade a foreign continent unless you place a Kurio city on the shore which wastes 1/2 of the city squares on ocean.

So, the real question here seems to be a way to allow the Kurio to transport units without actually having a city on the shore. Maybe some options can be:

1. Shipwright (national unit, max 4), similar to building a battering ram, but a unit that when in a settlement can "summon" a ship after x turns (approximately the same amount of time it would take to build one). I haven't played Kurio lately, but this assumes that ships can berth in settlements like regular cities.

2. Alternately, the shipwright can function like priests but instead of sacrificing themselves to build a temple they can sacrifice themselves to instantly build a ship. Unit doesn't need to be national then.

3. A trojan horse unit but without HN and with waterwalking. Seems like the most practical idea but maybe not quite thematically correct. Some kind of rideable tortoise should be more Lanun but some kind of mechanical ship with legs would be more Luichirp.

4. In the same vein as centaurs, some sort of flying birdman or roc unit that can hold one other unit. Give the flying unit a str of 1 so that they're fragile but can transport over impassible terrain (dead birdman = dead unit, right?). Thematically, could be cool to see a fleet of birdmen dropping off units in enemy terrain.

5. Allow Kurio cities to build ships without water but have them teleported to the closest water on completion (abusable, least favorite option).

 

[pimparel]

Now we just have to figure out a way to deal with Kuriotate empires without a coastal real city.

Why don't make a kuriotate only building with give hammer to coastal/sea tiles?

 

[TheConqueror]

Why don't make a kuriotate only building with give hammer to coastal/sea tiles?

But that isn't the real problem
By the way are you the same guy from Paradox forums, and a brazilian like me too? If yes then it confirms my theory that the world is pretty damn small and overpopulated

 

[hbar]

Now we just have to figure out a way to deal with Kuriotate empires without a coastal real city.

Why not give them a UU at sailing that carries a portable boat? It would be a low strength unit on land, but would have a spell that can create a trireme-like transport on coast? They'd be vulnerable if the opponent had a real navy, but at least they'd have an option.

 

[Corlis]

Maybe their costal cities could be given some better ways to use their water tiles, so that putting one on the coast would be more attractive than keeping them all inland. For instance, maybe they could have a UB that grants +1 Hammer on each water tile, perhaps a Lighthouse replacement? Perhaps the building could change to give +1 Trade as well on each water tile with some advanced tech (Astronomy?). That would make each coastal tile +2F, +1H, +3T at the end, which wouldn't be too bad.

 

[Kael]

Why not give them a UU at sailing that carries a portable boat? It would be a low strength unit on land, but would have a spell that can create a trireme-like transport on coast? They'd be vulnerable if the opponent had a real navy, but at least they'd have an option.

Thats what the team wants. The other viable option in my mind is a flying transport UU for the Kuriotates. But I havent given up thinking of a better way yet.

The flying transport is more AI friendly than the "ship builders". But the AI could be fixed by a little Ai tweaking (bascially pushing the AI to really really want to build coastal cities if they are anywhere near a coast and they dont have one yet).

 

[rusty217]

flying transport UU for the Kuriotates

What about carrier Griffons? An upgrade for standard griffons that can be upgraded to from any civ's captured griffons, and can also be built by the Kuriotates.

 

[Kael]

What about carrier Griffons? An upgrade for standard griffons that can be upgraded to from any civ's captured griffons, and can also be built by the Kuriotates.

Yeah I thought about that, I read all the threads. If we were going to do it it would probably be a flying ship with real transport ability (a 1 unit transport doesnt help the problem much). Plus captured griffons dont really need a perk, they are already pretty cool.

 

[Jhoniten]

Sounds like a further look at that airships mod might be the solution.

 

[SwordofStriker]

Why not give them a UU at sailing that carries a portable boat? It would be a low strength unit on land, but would have a spell that can create a trireme-like transport on coast? They'd be vulnerable if the opponent had a real navy, but at least they'd have an option.

Pictish boat warriors FTW!