Leader-based UHVs?

[antostor]

I've been playing an England campaign, picked Victoria as my leader and noticed that we'd be through with our UHV by 1750ish, which is long before her majesty ever sat the throne. So I thought "why not have all kinds of leaders have their own UHVs?"

Right now, the choice of a leader is purely decorative. It could offer some variance in playing the same civs.

Take Russian UHV for example. It's mostly what the Soviet Union was about. You can give this UHV to Stalin (who is axed).
- Peter would maybe instead have to move capital to St. Petersburg, build the Hermitage and settle 5 great people there by 1750, have five ships of line in the baltic, the black sea, the pacific, the white sea and the caspian each by 1725 and be the first to reach industrial age.
- Ivan the Terrible would want to raze a polish, a swedish, a mongol and a turkish city, make orthodoxy the largest christian faith and make Moscow the most cultured city in Europe by 1600.
- Catherine would want to control (or have vassals control) Constantinople, Poland and the Balkans, colonize Alaska and allow no republics or democracies in Europe by 1815.

Or Greek UHV-
Pericles could be colonizing the Mediterranean instead of conquering Persia.

Byzantines:
Justinian would be more about restoring old Roman Empire.

French:
A de Gaulle campaign could go for the 19th century French colonial Empire, like conquering North Africa, Madagascar, Indochina; and have a nuclear power plant and an atomic bomber in every city by 1960.

 

[Dracosolon]

Could be neat but that's a lot of interesting, balanced goals to come up with. You'd probably end up with a lot of redundant stuff per civ like slightly reworded conquest UHVs.

 

[1SDANi]

Having multiple UHV options for some civs would be cool, though I get the feeling that Eurasian civs will end up getting the majority thereof.

 

[antostor]

Having multiple UHV options for some civs would be cool, though I get the feeling that Eurasian civs will end up getting the majority thereof.

Being the ones with multiple leaders, that's quite likely, yes. Although I can see Ramesesses having a more bellicose, levant-conquering Egypt.

 

[Cypriot]

Being the ones with multiple leaders, that's quite likely, yes. Although I can see Ramesesses having a more bellicose, levant-conquering Egypt.

Huh, funny, I saw Cleopatra more militaristic to represent Ptolemaic ambition as successors to Alexander.

 

[ChineseWarlord]

I love this idea as it makes the mod have more replay value while we wait for 1.18. Even if Leoreth doesnt want to implement them, there is no reason why they cant be done informally

 

[Dracosolon]

Some of these leaders are gonna be screwed timeline-wise, like Charlemagne who's dead within 8 turns after the French spawn.

 

[ChineseWarlord]

In that case, it should be acceptable for the goals to often correspond less to the historical timelines and more toward what said ruler accomplished or tried to accomplish during his or her lifetime.

 

[ChineseWarlord]

I'll do the preliminary stages for Egypt. I don't think it would be desirable to implement them officially, but they might be fun little challenges for those who want to try some new game styles


Ramesses

1. Conquer or settle the Levant and Nubia by X
2. Have pagan temples in all cities you own by X
3. Build the Great Pyramid and Great Sphinx by X

Cleopatra

1. Build the Great Lighthouse and Great Library by X
2. Conquer a Roman city by X
3. Have 5000 Culture by X

Baibars

1. Own the levant in X (Sometime after the Mongols)
2. Build a Islamic Grand Mosque in X
3. Have X amount of Cultural and Scientific advancement in X

 

[antostor]

Some of these leaders are gonna be screwed timeline-wise, like Charlemagne who's dead within 8 turns after the French spawn.

You just give him a more Carolingian set of goals.

1. Holy Roman Empire: Conquer Rome and Frankfurt before Italians spawn.
2. Carolingian Renaissance: build 10 Monasteries before Renaissance, and be the first civ to reach it.
3. Frankish Marches: have 5 vassals before Renaissance.

Louis XIV would have a more cultural-economic set of goals:
1. Haute Cuisine: own or acquire every food resource, sugar and spices by 1680.
2. Roi du Soleil: build Notre Dame, Versailles and Louvre and have Paris achieve legendary culture by 1715.
3. Lingua Franca: culturally convert three European cities by 1789.

Napoleon would have a more militarized game:
1. Rivalry with Britain: Make sure Britain has no cities in America or India by 1783, have defensive pacts with America and any indian/mughal/dravidian civ.
2. Mastery over Europe: Take Amsterdam, Rome, Madrid and Moscow by 1812.
3. Code Civil: spread individualism, secularism and constitution globally by 1872.

De Gaulle would have a more modern France:
1. Free France: Own North Africa (Moorish and Mali corelands), Madagascar, Syria and Vietnam in1940 and have built a salon and a radio tower in every city there.
2. Force de Frappe: Have nuclear power plants and atomic bombers in every city by 1960.
3. World Champions: Build Eiffel Tower, Metropolitain, Graceland, Hollywood and Wembley and have the greatest median culture (total culture/number of cities) in the world in 1998.

 

[ChineseWarlord]

For Napoleon's Code Civil, I think it would be more suitable to only have a certain amount of civs adopt the civics. Getting the entire world seems difficult at best.

 

[ChineseWarlord]

Babylonia has two leaders: Sargon and Hammurabi. I was thinking Hammurabi's goals would be more of the ones we see in the actual mod, whereas Sargon's would be more about conquering the surrounding areas.

 

[Matara]

There can be more civilization-specific or era-specific goals. They don't need to be designed for game victory, but could offer some bonus to player who achieve them. Some turns of golden age or stability bonus, for example

 

[Cypriot]

Some turns of golden age or stability bonus, for example

Or some extended core areas. Or some defense against flipping your cities to new-born civs.

 

[TwoF]

To link goals to leaders, you need to link the spawn of civilizations to the spawn of leaders. It would be very strange that in the game, when choosing different leaders, only the pool of tasks changes, although in the game the country should develop towards its historical goals of the country in order to most correctly show the country. But if you make separate goals for the leaders, then taking the country and the right leader, you will follow the path that will lead you to the right goals and you will greatly disrupt the course of history. What is the point of colonizing Siberia for Stalin? What is the point of spreading communism for Peter the Great? This is a very bad idea. The role of the individual within the framework of this game is not so great that it has its own personal goals for victory.

 

[Cypriot]

To link goals to leaders, you need to link the spawn of civilizations to the spawn of leaders. It would be very strange that in the game, when choosing different leaders, only the pool of tasks changes, although in the game the country should develop towards its historical goals of the country in order to most correctly show the country.

It wouldn't be strange. AI ignore UHV completely and make things he is scripted to do. The player can make whatever ahistorical things he prefers to do. More goals - more freedom and fun for the player!

What is the point of colonizing Siberia for Stalin? What is the point of spreading communism for Peter the Great?

Stalin want colonize Siberia cause it has a lot of resources and is considered historical by the game, so it is free profitable land owning which won't make Russia collapse from overextention. Peter wants communism because it is perfectly suitable for big country like Russia, and he wants to spread it to remove opinion penalty from different civics with other countries, thus making them to love him more, so he doesn't have to suffer from negative international relationship stability. But Peter won't spread communism anyways, because his game ends before communism appears.

The role of the individual within the framework of this game is not so great that it has its own personal goals for victory.

Leader-based UHV represent not single-person goals but rather country ambitions in the certain time period. Adding them will make gameplay more flexible and add replayability, without actual contradicting history.

 

[ChineseWarlord]

Not to mention that right now it's at the conceptual stage and these goals aren't actually coded in yet.

 

[TwoF]

Stalin want colonize Siberia cause it has a lot of resources and is considered historical by the game, so it is free profitable land owning which won't make Russia collapse from overextention. Peter wants communism because it is perfectly suitable for big country like Russia, and he wants to spread it to remove opinion penalty from different civics with other countries, thus making them to love him more, so he doesn't have to suffer from negative international relationship stability. But Peter won't spread communism anyways, because his game ends before communism appears.

This tells us that the goals and mission of the country are more important than the goals and mission of even its best leaders. The goals and missions of the personalities are secondary, and are only suitable as additional quests, but definitely not to replace the historical victory now.

Leader-based UHV represent not single-person goals but rather country ambitions in the certain time period.

The ambitions of the country in a certain period of time are perfectly reflected in the 3 tasks for a historic victory. Complete task 1 before time 1, complete task 2 before time 2, complete task 3 before time 3. Each goal is significant and all the efforts of civilization are aimed at fulfilling the goals here and now.What do you propose? Instead of 3 goals, now, on average, we get about 9 goals for the country simply by diluting what we have, dividing 3 big goals into 9 subtasks. And after that, you will also deliberately choose only 3 of these subtasks, abandoning the rest of the game for the country, making it useless.

 

[Dracosolon]

Not to mention that right now it's at the conceptual stage and these goals aren't actually coded in yet.

Coded? I thought people were talking about a self-imposed challenge, without Leoreth involvement.

 

[Derdan]

Hey, you never know. Give it 5-10 years.