[LP] Leader Pass Pack 5: Great Builders Revealed (Coming Mar. 15th)

[Cooleatack]

First of all, they are certainly making money off of this DLC (as they should!). Maybe not from direct sales, but certainly from users shoring up the remaining DLC they don't have by purchasing the Anthology pack. 2K is not running a charity and surely wants a return on their investment. You can bet that their bean counters signed off on this, just like every product they release.

I have not read comments that are disrespectful personally to the developers. And anyone who is somewhat familiar with my posts here knows that I am the first to call people out for getting personal. No, all the posts are related to the art itself, not the artists. And it's not just the art that is disappointing. You also noted that the marketing is not to the standard we have come to expect, and neither is the overall polishing (ability text, abilities themselves, overall concepts and ideas...).

The fact is, Civ 6 is a AAA title with the world's biggest gaming publisher behind it. Civ 6, like other games, will live on into the future indefinitely, and all of this content becomes a permanent part of its legacy and its story. With every DLC we get that is less polished, the final portrait of Civ 6 looks less and less refined and more and more slapdash. That's a shame to me and it does affect our enjoyment of the game. One cannot help but see the differences in quality every game, as all of the content is mixed together, inviting comparisons of this DLC with stuff that was executed exceptionally well, like Gathering Storm.

You're making a big assumption that "interns" are working on this, by the way. I think that is an insulting assumption. Sure, the main team is hard at work on Civ 7, but that doesn't mean that the people working on this are less experienced or skilled. It could easily be a matter of time and resources allocated to the project, not the skill of the artists or developers. And for that reason, "having the most talented team working on this or rather on the just announced Civ game?" is a false dilemma.

Ultimately, I don't know what you're trying to convey here. That we're not allowed to give feedback? The new promotional process for this DLC focuses on just releasing the art first. What else do you expect people to talk about? It's all we have, and frankly, this is a strange marketing approach, considering the quality differences with earlier content are clear as day. At least this art release didn't devolve into more debates about "skin tones."

The last point I want to make is that our respectful feedback is helpful. It is 100% fact that the devs read these forums and other Civ 6 places of discussion and take fan feedback into account. This goes all the way back to the base game, where the devs altered the model of Teddy Roosevelt based on feedback, and continues to the present, where the devs have basically copied-and-pasted bug fixes to code that people like @Infixo have posted. So I think seeing what the general consensus on this art is is important to the devs--especially if, as you speculate, there are "interns" who are learning to on the job.

To be clear I did not direct this at you or anyone in specific. Reading this thread, some of the comments, again, without targeting anyone, were not just directed at the artwork, but at the effort of the devs. I do think that is uncalled for.

Of course they still make money one way or another. A company is a company, the machine will turn to churn more money for their investors. I’m not oblivious to this. I do think that the employees at Firaxis are all passionate about what they do, and they do not really think in the way of making profits for their overlord 2K, but making something they are proud ofc and to give us and themselves something fun to play. For you and me this is still a free extra, that is all I’m referring to.

I suspect this idea came internally, and yes fair, perhaps assuming this came from interns is condescending. However, since it does not meet the standards set before, as you rightfully point out, I still assume this is the case. I am familiar with the type of projects done by interns, and this whole backlash at devs is very similar to what is going on at Paradox with CK3 at the moment. There, some poor new employee a few weeks ago also got a wave of disheartening criticism, for what was essentially a starting project, because fans were mad about timing.

I will be the first to advocate for criticism, and I too find the artwork highly lacking. Ramses and Caesar are disappointing to me, for instance. I don’t like the precedent it is setting for future content either. I’m just saying we can take our tone a bit more constructive. Not saying you or me or anyone specific, and most have certainly been constructive. I just noted the general tone of voice in the thread. As if there were a riot brewing. These are still people that have shown in the past how they care for this game and community. I just don’t think they deserve this kind of negativity.

 

[DannyMustardpants]

First impression: I'm actually starting to wish the the LP was never made. Not sure if it's worth getting these leaders (mostly with kind of lame abilities) and risk the artistic credibility of the game as a whole.

 

[QueenGloriana]

Well, they did say a couple of days ago in Twitter that Yongle was the most popular leader from the pack so far. I guess that was reason enough to add him twice

 

[pokiehl]

Reading this thread, some of the comments, again, without targeting anyone, were not just directed at the artwork, but at the effort of the devs. I do think that is uncalled for.

I can see what you mean about that now that I went back and read more, and I agree 100%. All criticism should avoid speculating on a person's quality of effort, motivation, skill, intelligence, etc. That's absolutely uncalled for.

 

[Harald Longface]

New Sejong render

https://twitter.com/x/status/1633905499920842795

 

[Leucarum]

Definitely an improvement on their first choice of image!

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I dig his jade belt. I wonder if he and Kristina swap books

 

[Potworny]

His model would definitely benefit from a more detailed skin texture and a better (possibly more glamorously shiny like in V) gown material. He looks flat, if one can say that about a 3D model. Compared to previous renditions he kind of looks like ungraded raw video footage.

 

[Nikolai II]

I see a lot of civfanatics are falling into the "all Asians look alike" trap.

 

[bbbt]

I was expecting more head-in-the-clouds 19th century dandy from Ludwig, but that shot is giving more angry twink vibes. We'll see what the animation brings.

 

[Kwami]

I see a lot of civfanatics are falling into the "all Asians look alike" trap.

Alternatively, some people just look like other people, regardless of whether they're Asian.

 

[DannyMustardpants]

Alternatively, some people just look like other people, regardless of whether they're Asian.

If all Asian people had exactly the same body, wearing almost identical clothing, and with a slightly different face, then I think 'all Asians look the same' would be completely justified imo.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

If all Asian people had exactly the same body, wearing almost identical clothing, and with a slightly different face, then I think 'all Asians look the same' would be completely justified imo.

Ironically, it's the face that is too similar for my tastes.

 

[AntSou]

In the original post Sejong looks like a younger brother. In the one above he looks like a twin.

I hope it's an old one because to me he looks much better in the original post. It's evident the book design looked much better in Civ 5. In Civ 6 he looks like he's carrying a notebook to class. So far he still looks like the best of the pack imo.

The background seems to look pretty good.

 

[AntSou]

I have some slight hope Neuschwanstein will be included in this pack, against what Ed Beach said in the first livestream. Entirely based on it being in Ludwig's background. Would improve the pack considerably. Despite being built in the 19th century, it could be moved to the late Renaissance (Enlightenment Civic?), thus making it a total of 9 wonders in that era (Classical = 12, Medieval = 10, Industrial = 8).

 

[IvoryPavane]

Honestly, I’d be living for Theodora if there was just a bit of detail in her white top. A little bit of embroidery or detail would really elevate everything, it just looks a bit flat as a white surface.

I’m more interested in her having a fun, flavourful and useful leader ability though

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I wonder how Sejong would sound like!

 

[Starina]

I have some slight hope Neuschwanstein will be included in this pack, against what Ed Beach said in the first livestream. Entirely based on it being in Ludwig's background. Would improve the pack considerably. Despite being built in the 19th century, it could be moved to the late Renaissance (Enlightenment Civic?), thus making it a total of 9 wonders in that era (Classical = 12, Medieval = 10, Industrial = 8).

Since the new leaders are using existing abilities, maybe Ludwig will combine ability of Shah Jahān

 

[pokiehl]

Since the new leaders are using existing abilities, maybe Ludwig will combine ability of Shah Jahān

It’d be cool but I doubt it. That ability is not easily ported: it’s specifically coded as an action for great people. They couldn’t implement it as a generalized “menu” ability, or as an ability for regular units, without a lot of work.

 

[Starina]

It’d be cool but I doubt it. That ability is not easily ported: it’s specifically coded as an action for great people. They couldn’t implement it as a generalized “menu” ability, or as an ability for regular units, without a lot of work.

Why? If add action to builder, then everything should be simple. Qin Shi Huang already has a similar button