Leader Pass: Rulers of the Sahara - 2/14 Developer Livestream Discussion

Patine

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That has nothing to do with whether other leads address her as "Pharaoh" or not. That was my point - you said the Ptolemies were not considered Pharaohs or that other leaders wouldn't call them "Pharaoh." That's all I meant.
Well, I guess the point I was making was I'd rather have a real Pharaoh than a foreign one of pretense. I also think a separate Ptolemaic Kingdom, just to showcase Cleopatra, is ridiculous. But I apologize for loading on you when you just answered a simple question titulary.
 

SecretWeapon

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Lowkey hoping Civ7 pulls out a Macedon and gives us an Hellenistic Egypt civilization lead by Cleopatra just to watch people seethe here. This "not a real ruler/a true x/ good enough" BS that always comes up with female leaders here is exhausting and it rarely, if ever happen with the men

Moderator Action: Please do not troll in our forums. leif
 
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Patine

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Lowkey hoping Civ7 pulls out a Macedon and gives us an Hellenistic Egypt civilization lead by Cleopatra just to watch people seethe here. This "not a real ruler/a true x/ good enough" BS that always comes up with female leaders here is exhausting and it rarely, if ever happen with the men
There were four female Pharaohs of Egypt who ruled regnantly, in their own right, who were actually Egyptian and ruled during the heyday of Egyptian civilization, and I'd personally prefer any one of them to Cleopatra the Greek. But it was a nice try.
 

pokiehl

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Lowkey hoping Civ7 pulls out a Macedon and gives us an Hellenistic Egypt civilization lead by Cleopatra just to watch people seethe here. This "not a real ruler/a true x/ good enough" BS that always comes up with female leaders here is exhausting and it rarely, if ever happen with the men
Speaking as a supporter of Cleopatra and someone who wants more Ptolemies: I think it's really unwarranted to attribute the furor against the Ptolemies to sexism. That hasn't been the sense I've gotten at all. For instance, @Zaarin , who disagrees with me about the inclusion of Ptolemies specifically acknowledges Cleopatra as the best option for a Ptolemy to him. He and others also advocate for Egyptian female rulers, like Hatshepsut.

The same furor was raised when Macedon itself got included--that it didn't warrant its own faction. I for one am really happy we got Macedon and hope to see that continue, but that's another topic.
 

Eagle Pursuit

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Speaking as a supporter of Cleopatra and someone who wants more Ptolemies: I think it's really unwarranted to attribute the furor against the Ptolemies to sexism. That hasn't been the sense I've gotten at all. For instance, @Zaarin , who disagrees with me about the inclusion of Ptolemies specifically acknowledges Cleopatra as the best option for a Ptolemy to him. He and others also advocate for Egyptian female rulers, like Hatshepsut.

The same furor was raised when Macedon itself got included--that it didn't warrant its own faction. I for one am really happy we got Macedon and hope to see that continue, but that's another topic.
I quite like Macedon as its own civ, because it cuts Alexander out of being the primary or only Greek leader, which thereafter makes Greece a militaristic civ. And that just doesn't feel right to me.
 

SecretWeapon

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And the expected denial afterwards. I'll drop the topic here because its OT and talking is useless when people just deny things to themselves but not being an outright rabid womanhater doesn't mean female rulers aren't beheld to different standards. The perfect example is Saladin who is neither arabian nor egyptian and was a conqueror but people complaining about him: zero.

Moderator Action: Please cease trolling. leif
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
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I quite like Macedon as its own civ, because it cuts Alexander out of being the primary or only Greek leader, which thereafter makes Greece a militaristic civ. And that just doesn't feel right to me.
I would partly agree with you, but then again, we also got Gorgo. I do like Macedon obviously, but it wouldn't matter if it was a one off civ and he went back to Greece. Then again, I'd want multiple leaders so he could be the militaristic one and spread Hellenistic culture. :D
And the expected denial afterwards. I'll drop the topic here because its OT and talking is useless when people just deny things to themselves but not being an outright rabid womanhater doesn't mean female rulers aren't beheld to different standards. The perfect example is Saladin who is neither arabian nor egyptian and was a conqueror but people complaining about him: zero.
At that time Egypt was part of the Islamic Arab world, so that makes sense. Speaking from someone that also doesn't mind Cleopatra as a leader, I don't see the need to have a separate Ptolemy Egypt considering it is still considered part of the Pharaonic dynasty period of their history.
I also don't think it's sexist to also want a ruler such as Ramses, or Akhenaten my personal favorite for Civ 7, over Cleopatra either. I can also certainly see why some people would also want Hatshepsut over her too.
 

Eagle Pursuit

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I would partly agree with you, but then again, we also got Gorgo. I do like Macedon obviously, but it wouldn't matter if it was a one off civ and he went back to Greece. Then again, I'd want multiple leaders so he could be the militaristic one and spread Hellenistic culture. :D

At that time Egypt was part of the Islamic Arab world, so that makes sense. Speaking from someone that also doesn't mind Cleopatra as a leader, I don't see the need to have a separate Ptolemy Egypt considering it is still considered part of the Pharaonic dynasty period of their history.
I also don't think it's sexist to also want a ruler such as Ramses, or Akhenaten my personal favorite for Civ 7, over Cleopatra either. I can also certainly see why some people would also want Hatshepsut over her too.
Akhenaten would be such an interesting take on Egypt
 

SecretWeapon

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I really want Civilization: Legends of Earth as well

At that time Egypt was part of the Islamic Arab world, so that makes sense. Speaking from someone that also doesn't mind Cleopatra as a leader, I don't see the need to have a separate Ptolemy Egypt considering it is still considered part of the Pharaonic dynasty period of their history.

I absolutely agree. Just commenting on the double standard.
 

Evie

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While I'm not as gung ho about "No Ptolemies" as Zaarin, my feelings on the matter is:

Currently, out of four thousand years of Egyptian history, we've had 10 leaders: five versions of Cleopatra (Ptolemies), four of Rameses II (Nineteenth dynasty) and one of everyone else (Hatshepsut in IV). Cleo and Ramesess are both fine leaders for egypt, and the Ptolemies and XIX pth dynasties were significant, but both them and their dynasties need to take a backseat for a couple games at this point and allow the game's version of Egypt to grow beyond them . This very much includes giving more screen time to Hatshepsut, who really shouldmhave had more than one turn already,

When Civ has opened the door to more of Egypt, then they can bring Cleo and Ramesess back and mix them with the newcomers.
 
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queenpea

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So...umm...circling back here.

Are we looking at the final two drops of LP in March? Looks like we might blow past the "Ides of March" deadline, unless we get releases Thursday, March 2, and one week later, Thursday, the 9th.

The more obvious guess would be the 2nd, and the 16th.
 

Eagle Pursuit

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So...umm...circling back here.

Are we looking at the final two drops of LP in March? Looks like we might blow past the "Ides of March" deadline, unless we get releases Thursday, March 2, and one week later, Thursday, the 9th.

The more obvious guess would be the 2nd, and the 16th.
I expect the 9th and the 30th. The Ides of March deadline seems like it was a bit idealistic. To reach it, the Chinese pack would have had to arrive a week earlier (less close to Chinese New Year) and the Sahara pack would have to be earlier too. The Sahara pack ended up being 4 weeks past the Chinese pack, rather than 3.
 

queenpea

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I expect the 9th and the 30th. The Ides of March deadline seems like it was a bit idealistic. To reach it, the Chinese pack would have had to arrive a week earlier (less close to Chinese New Year) and the Sahara pack would have to be earlier too. The Sahara pack ended up being 4 weeks past the Chinese pack, rather than 3.

Got it, I guess if they had closed it out by the 16th, I would have forgiven a day and said they had nailed the deadline.
 

InsidiousMage

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So...umm...circling back here.

Are we looking at the final two drops of LP in March? Looks like we might blow past the "Ides of March" deadline, unless we get releases Thursday, March 2, and one week later, Thursday, the 9th.

The more obvious guess would be the 2nd, and the 16th.
I doubt they'll be released that quickly and closely together. A three week release window would mean the final two packs would come out on March 9th and 30th, which seems like a more plausible scenario.
 

InsidiousMage

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Should set up perfectly for them to reveal Civilization VII on April Fool's Day
They'd be remiss if they didn't make some kind of faux announcement that day
April Fool's day is the tool of Satan! And should be scourged from the face of the Earth! Seriously though, I try and avoid the internet as much as possible on that day because all of the annoying and unfunny jokes from every. single. company. Like, I appreciate that Firaxis does try to stay semi-active on social media and although they do occasionally put out something interesting, they rarely put out anything I would consider "essential" or even funny and I can't image them trying do a "funny" reveal announcement that isn't, as the kids today like to say, cringe.
 

Nikolai II

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Firaxis social media is catering to the gen z crowd. Or, trying to. It's painful to see.
 

Thormodr

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April Fool's day is the tool of Satan! And should be scourged from the face of the Earth! Seriously though, I try and avoid the internet as much as possible on that day because all of the annoying and unfunny jokes from every. single. company. Like, I appreciate that Firaxis does try to stay semi-active on social media and although they do occasionally put out something interesting, they rarely put out anything I would consider "essential" or even funny and I can't image them trying do a "funny" reveal announcement that isn't, as the kids today like to say, cringe.
Actually, I think they are doing a good job. The target audience isn't us, though. 🙂
 

Patine

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April Fool's day is the tool of Satan! And should be scourged from the face of the Earth! Seriously though, I try and avoid the internet as much as possible on that day because all of the annoying and unfunny jokes from every. single. company. Like, I appreciate that Firaxis does try to stay semi-active on social media and although they do occasionally put out something interesting, they rarely put out anything I would consider "essential" or even funny and I can't image them trying do a "funny" reveal announcement that isn't, as the kids today like to say, cringe.
A bit hyperbolic and melodramatic. And one should chant (or type) the name of the Adversary, and avoid it as much as possible.
 
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