Leonardo's Workshop (The TECH Thread)

[Kaleb]

There's no harm and this is indeed necessary. The trouble is the rest of the team cannot keep abreast of what's being said when we're not included in on the conversations.

I don't know why it's so hard to keep abreast. I've posted everything of relevance in the forums. It's as easy to follow as every other discussion surely?? As long as we post in the right place and keep threads on topic.

No I have not. To be frank I've not even looked at our embassy threads for two days now. Between the polling silliness and feeling that I don't know what has been said to or by other teams that isn't in our team forum the fun level of this game has decreased tremendously for me lately. I have limited time for Civ and I refer to spend it on games that are fun.

Ok, I was just asking, no accusatory tone there. As far as this is concerned: "I don't know what has been said to or by other teams that isn't in our team forum" from my part at least there isn't anything extra. I haven't copy and pasted full chats in here as that just creates a wall of text, but if something is said of importance either way I've always posted it our forums.

Kaleb, the problem is we don't know how unstructured it has become, do we? Let's not just focus on chats but remember private messages as well.

The point I made about chat applies to PMs. The only chat/PM we've had has been with Cav. Me sending a PM to Saturn to let them know we've sent an in-game OB request is hardly causing a problem.

I am not against using either chats or pms for communication with other teams. I am against these things happening without them being posted in the team forum for everyone to see. If a pm is sent then copies of it any any replies should be posted in the appropriate embassy threads. If a chat is conducted then a log should be kept and the log posted in the proper embassy thread. That way we can all see all communications with other teams.

Do I really need to post the whole dialogue with Lord Parking just for the sake of it? I said, in these forums, that we requested OB when we requested it, and I said they accepted it when they accepted it. What more needs to be said?

We probably should have a specific ambassador for each team, a person whom we choose as a team to be the main point of contact between us and another team. That person can find the best way of communicating with the other team as long as copies of all communications are posted in the forums and he or she only divulges or commits to whatever the team agrees to divulge or commit to.

An ambassador for each team is fine, but if I posted in full every dialogue it will just fill our forums with mostly irrelevant information. If Sommers for example is 'ambassador' to MS I don't want a full log every chat. I just want a summary of what was said of importance by either party. Or at least if a full log must be posted put it in a spoiler and write a summary.

Cav saying that MS have met Saturn IS something of importance and should have been passed on.

 

[damnrunner]

We seem pretty confused as to what we want to tech let alone what we want to trade for techs. I propose that people list their tech priorities and we use that as a starting point to see what techs to research and attempt to trade for as we go forward.

If we could not trade for techs this would be my tech order going forward.

Aesthetics, Literature,Metal Casting, Construction, currency, Civil Service.

 

[Provolution]

I would do the following:

Trade Alphabet and Polytheism for Metal Casting from Sancta, and make that the last deal with them. This way, we get in better graces with Sancta, as we offered them a better deal than Team Cav. This also gives us the option to place a forge in the military production city, or a city to build many buildings.

Trade IW and Masonry for HBR from Saturn, creating a tech dead-end for a future Sancta-Saturn agreement, denying them the option to trade those techs in a bit.

We research Civil Service and Cav takes on Currency, finally we make Team MS do Archery, Aesthetics and other techs not yet researched.

 

[donsig]

@ Provo: Any tech trades with SANCTA or Saturn have to be approved by Team Cav and the Mad Ones.

@ Kaleb: You don't have to post an entire discussion if the conversation wanders off to other games, world news or personal matters but any game discussion (via pm, chat or team email) should be posted in our team forum in its entirety. Feel free to edit out non-Kazakh stuff but give us the actual dialogue about the game. Posting this dialogue in spoilers and prefacing it with a (non-spoiler) summary in the proper thread is excellent and all I'm asking for. Give us a chance to read the dialogue and judge for ourselves what is important. Finally, how do you know that everyone on this team that has had contact with other teams has even let us know about their conversations?

Back on topic: I think we should research aesthetics and then literacy ourselves so we can build the Great Library. We have two partners to help with research and we could try adding a third (Saturn).

 

[Kaleb]

@ Kaleb: You don't have to post an entire discussion if the conversation wanders off to other games, world news or personal matters but any game discussion (via pm, chat or team email) should be posted in our team forum in its entirety. Feel free to edit out non-Kazakh stuff but give us the actual dialogue about the game. Posting this dialogue in spoilers and prefacing it with a (non-spoiler) summary in the proper thread is excellent and all I'm asking for. Give us a chance to read the dialogue and judge for ourselves what is important.

Ok, I'll do as you ask. That's simple enough to have as a rule.

Finally, how do you know that everyone on this team that has had contact with other teams has even let us know about their conversations?

I don't

 

[Kaleb]

We seem pretty confused as to what we want to tech let alone what we want to trade for techs. I propose that people list their tech priorities and we use that as a starting point to see what techs to research and attempt to trade for as we go forward.

If we could not trade for techs this would be my tech order going forward.

Aesthetics, Literature,Metal Casting, Construction, currency, Civil Service.

Good suggestion.

I'm not 100% set on this but I would say:
1) Aesthetics>Literature
2) Civil Service
3) Construction
4) Compass

I wouldn't want to give SANCTA Polytheism as this would help them get Literature.

 

[Sommerswerd]

1. Metal Casting
2. Aesthetics --> Literature
3. Construction

 

[donsig]

1. Aesthetics --> literature
2. currency
3. civil service
4. metal casting

 

[mikotian]

I fully support trading with Sancta, Alphabet + whatever for MC, AFTER we finish whatever we are going to trade with Saturn, and after we are half way through Aesthetics at the very least.

Here is what I think:
1) Aesthetics >>> Literature
2) TRADE MC somewhere during (1)
3) Civil Service
4) Currency

 

[Sommerswerd]

OK, so Cavalieros have refused to tech anything for us besides Aesthetics... And they will only do that if we tech Civil Service for them. We have not heard officially from other teams what trades they will or won't make with us.

So here is where we seem to stand so far...

Metal Casting
Provo
Garand
Herviov
Sommers

Aesthetics
Donsig
Cavscout
Smokey
Damnrunner
Mikotian

They pressing question is... If this is not resolved by the time we finish Monotheism, will we set the tech slider to 0% until we straighten it out?

 

[damnrunner]

I think it will have to go down to 0 at some point soon anyway, so doing it now should not be a problem.

I think we should see if Sancta accepts our trade offer for MC before before we make any decision.


With regards to team Cav what do they plan to tech on their own if we tech Aesthetics/Lit? And do we know what MS plans to tech?

I think our diplo angle to them should be that their insistence that we only tech CS for them makes us distrustful and less likely to want to tech CS and wary of their commitment to an alliance of cooperation. As tech leaders we feel we should set tech agenda.

 

[donsig]

Setting research to zero is ok if that is what we would normally do. Setting it to zero only to give us more time to make a decision is not.

 

[cav scout]

Well 6 to 4 seems resolved to me.

 

[Provolution]

I think it still warrants a poll, as not everyone posts when they browse the forums, we need to boost participation and be more inclusive, and polling close ties is the way to do this. I say we poll Aesthetics vs. Metal Casting, and go from there. There is a clear split there.

 

[donsig]

The trouble is some of us are boycotting the polls.

 

[damnrunner]

I think a poll is appropriate. Polling what tech to do next seems like it should be fairly non-controversial.

As to boycotting the polls - at this point that seems fairly pointless. The majority of the team supports polls as evidenced in polling and general discussion on the subject.

Boycotting polls does not advance anyone’s agenda and only serves as a potential obstruction to our team’s decision making process. I understand that a few people don’t like polls, but the team has decided to have them and continued arguing about the process takes away from discussions about the game.

 

[Kaleb]

This is where I don't see the point of a poll, we have already had a vote in effect. The majority of regular players are clearly in favour of teching Aesthetics next.

Why should it be that potentially a couple of lurkers who never participate in discussions (and maybe haven't even followed the debate) can swing the decision away from what the majority of active players want?

Simply getting people to push a vote button isn't my idea of encouraging participation.

And where did we as a team decide to have polls? The only polls we have had have been on what basis do we initiate a poll. "I don't think we need polls at all" was never given as an option.

 

[cav scout]

Yeah, the last thing we need is someone who hasn't logged on in two months and hasn't followed any of the debate say, "oh look, a poll... hmmm, Metal Casting is much cooler than boring Aesthetics- I vote for MC!"

 

[Herviov]

This is where I don't see the point of a poll, we have already had a vote in effect. The majority of regular players are clearly in favour of teching Aesthetics next.

Why should it be that potentially a couple of lurkers who never participate in discussions (and maybe haven't even followed the debate) can swing the decision away from what the majority of active players want?

Simply getting people to push a vote button isn't my idea of encouraging participation.

And where did we as a team decide to have polls? The only polls we have had have been on what basis do we initiate a poll. "I don't think we need polls at all" was never given as an option.

Hierarchy amongst the members. That's one way to go.

What determines who is within the cool crowd?

Do we make a poll to fix those rules?

Am I in the cool crowd ?

 

[cav scout]

@Damnrunner- how do you know the majority supports polls? Based on your position I'd imagine you have poll data to back up your assertion

@Herviov- Not a hierarchy. No one is excluding anyone. People who are signed up to the team have a right to say anything they want here, to share their opinions and have their voices heard.

If someone brings something to the table it will be considered and discussed. Other people who have an opinion on the issue will make their voices heard as well and the team will eventually reach a decision.

The more someone is involved the more their voice will be heard. That doesn't means anyone will necesarily agree with it. You get what you put into this game.