LizNES5: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying, And Love The Bomb

[arya126]

The american public is becoming worried due to Alec Claymore's recent statements about intervening in America. Many are afraid the British may try to reclaim the 13 colonies and more. Over the past 7 hours, we have seen as many as 7,000 new volunteers come into recruitment centers for the armed forces, and thats in Ohihois alone!

 

[Immaculate]

From the Foreign Secretary of Colombia,
To World Powers Threatening Escalation of the Confederate/USA Conflict,

Colombia has, in the past, supported the (then) USMA in its war on New England, simply because New England was plainly in the wrong in attacking the Free Maritime Provinces. We have also supported some territorial and economic concessions by the defeated New English state to help rebuild the Maritimes and its other victims and so we feel that, if anything, our view-point might be considered pro-USA/France.

However, we feel that we cannot in good faith, support the complete annexation of New England by the USA for a number of reasons. The first, and most important, is that the New England people and military have offered a very reasonable surrender to the USA. Secondly, we must consider the opinions and determination of the world's international community. As much as the USMA and France may wish it were otherwise, the political leadership of much of Europe as well as the Confederates, cannot accept complete annexation of New England by the USA and are willing to have their sons die and their treasures spent to ensure it does not happen.

For this reason, and especially to avoid further blood and conflict, we ask the USA to reconsider the previous terms of surrender offered by the military of the New English. With this one act they may prevent the needless loss of French, English British, Confederate, USA, and other lives.

 

[Milarqui]

France formally withdraws from L'Entente Imperiale, citing blatant imperialism and nation-scale hypocrisy from the other members as its reasons.

In other news, Carerre continues to lose popularity at a point every eight hours. We're at seven points now.

-L

The Iberian Union wonders why France has suddenly decided to do this. It saddens us to see a friend leaving the organization we have worked so hard on.

 

[GamezRule]

The american public is becoming worried due to Alec Claymore's recent statements about intervening in America. Many are afraid the British may try to reclaim the 13 colonies and more. Over the past 7 hours, we have seen as many as 7,000 new volunteers come into recruitment centers for the armed forces, and thats in Ohihois alone!

What statements?

 

[arya126]

On the other hand, you escalated it and kept it from a swift ending. We are deeply saddened that our brother across the great pond are dying at each others hands, but we are not afraid to step in and help administer justice if it is necessary.

These statements, along with all your other hostile words in the past hours.

 

[GamezRule]

Nah man, those were the Queen's statements.

Spoiler :

Meh, she technically holds the actual power to declare war anyway, since I am playing a historical British government

 

[Shadowbound]

California will declare war on the next person to post before the update.

 

[TheLizardKing]

Wow. Alright, let's see here.

Yes, I would classify France's actions wildly OOC, at least in terms that, I could never see.. anyone really doing that. Their are a lot of steps before declaring war, at least in reaction to another war of this nature, namely sanctions, embargoes and very loud yelling. Up and declaring war for the sake of protecting an otherwise unaligned nation is a stretch, I can't really see it as anything but.

Of course, I can't particularly stop it from happening. While yes, I am the mod, this game is supposed to be mostly player run, and it isn't very much fun if I step in and prevent too much from happening. While this is an OOC action, is surely isn't the most OOC action that could have happened, (Britain, for example, declaring war on France for no reason would be an example) so I don't feel comfortable up and refusing to allow it.

While many of you are probably going to be upset by this, you must also look at the fact that I'm not saying repercussions won't be felt by France, or any other assortment of means. I feel like I have proven to be fairly decent in making sure ridiculous things like this aren't common place, and the best remedy for this situation is to treat the OOC action with an IC viewpoint. Because this really, is similar to.. Canada declaring war on the United States for Vietnam. (you get the picture.) Before anyone 'rage quits' I will just say, wait for the update.

Coincedentally, not too much of it has been done yet, mostly on account of a slow stream of orders coming in over the last week. With this recent activity, should anyone want to resend in orders, I feel like that would be fair, especially because not too much work has been done on the update in all honesty. If you are to resend orders though, I won't accept anything past tomorrow (I'm looking at perhaps 24 hours?).

As I said, try your best to bite your tongue until after the update. Any serious problems or points, you can always PM me.

 

[GamezRule]

I say you 'move' all of the recent stuff we have said and done to be after the update.

 

[arya126]

Um...how about no? In all honesty i would love to off on a rant after that comment, but Im going to honor TLKs request and PM him about all of it. I would appreciate it if you could do the same and bite you tongue, as TLK says.

 

[Heraclius49]

@TheLizardKing
Even though I am not really involved in the recent incidents with France, could I send order revisions? I doubt that they will matter very much for the update.

 

[TheLizardKing]

Like I said, Ill accept order revisions untill tonight.

 

[Lighthearter]

OOC: Sanctions and yelling and all those steps before war? WHY I - agree that you have a perfectly valid point there. In fact, the lot of you are raising valid points.

HOWEVER, I feel slightly railroaded - wherever I turn, there's only the One Path that I can take, regardless of the fact that as of last turn, I took over France. Maybe that's 'cause I'm new to NESing, maybe it's normal.

And also - the sanctions and such again . . . why did not a soul mention that when the CSA invaded the USA but it's the End of the World with me? (Honestly curious, actually.....)
/OOC
-L

 

[Lord of Elves]

OOC: The CSA is an observing member of L'Entente Imperiale, and an ally of the Dutch Empire. Supporting the USMA against the CSA, as a member of L'Entente Imperiale, should have obvious ramifications.

 

[GamezRule]

OOC: Basically we are all allied with the nation you are opposing. You should look into these things before taking rash actions, this applies to any NES.

 

[Milarqui]

OOC: Sanctions and yelling and all those steps before war? WHY I - agree that you have a perfectly valid point there. In fact, the lot of you are raising valid points.

HOWEVER, I feel slightly railroaded - wherever I turn, there's only the One Path that I can take, regardless of the fact that as of last turn, I took over France. Maybe that's 'cause I'm new to NESing, maybe it's normal.

And also - the sanctions and such again . . . why did not a soul mention that when the CSA invaded the USA but it's the End of the World with me? (Honestly curious, actually.....)
/OOC
-L

OOC: As everybody else has said, you should have checked out what nation you are and what it has been doing before trying to do anything. It would have been like someone replaced Hitler during WWII and decided to get all chummy with the Allies just because. If you want France to break from the Entente Imperiale and ally with the USA in just one year you should provide a very, very good reason for such an OOC behaviour.

 

[Dreadnought]

And also - the sanctions and such again . . . why did not a soul mention that when the CSA invaded the USA but it's the End of the World with me? (Honestly curious, actually.....)
/OOC
-L

Uhm, because the CSA has a legitimate concern over the actions in North America, while France, who should be in very good relations with the CSA, is meddling, out of character, where they shouldn't be involved.

I'm going to hold my tongue, like the mod says, until the update is out.

 

[TheLizardKing]

It's considered an OOC action because France, before you had a player. They set France on a track, which established whether or not certain actions were OOC or IC. Regardless of what you do, it's very rare a nation completely changes it's entire national character overnight, forgoes ties it has with similar nations, to support a nation fighting a war against a nation it had previously friendly relations with. Over time, sure. You distance yourself from the L'entente, hell, even sending some supplies to the Americans is fine. But up and declaring war, is something else entirely. It has been pointing out that the CNA has done something similar with the USA. As the mod, I consider that entirely different. War came after some arguing from the Confederacy, coupled with some mysterious circumstances, and the fact that one nation is trying to completely annex another nation that has been independent for the past 150 years. The moment France joined L'entente, it became IC to, well, be friends with the CNA, support them, etc. You left the L'entente because of 'imperialism', but that was the entire reason it was formed.

Because you read the updates does not mean you entirely know what the situation is. Other nations that have aggressively invaded other nations had some form of a cassus belli that was even slightly IC, if not a bit farfetched. And those that did have the looser, more far-fetched wars ended them all quickly enough before any sort of international or domestic reprecussions could be had.

I compared this horribly to Canada declaring war on the United States over Vietnam. A more correct comparison would be this games Soviet Russia, declaring war on an allied Soviet State, for fighting a non-Soviet state.

I really was hoping to allow this to be solved IC, which is why, as I said, I'm not bringing down the hammer, and refusing to allow it to happen. I'm simply making the point that the French people and other nations who are IC, will treat this as they would/should in real life.

 

[arya126]

As I said in my PM, which TLK in all his wisdom decided to ignore, France is not changing overnight. Over the past year, they have started to distance themselves from the Entente (Which I might add is NOT EVEN A MILITARY ALLIANCE, as admitted by Germany's admission that they themselves have no diplomatic ties to the CSA), and started to verbally support the USA, and we even had a joint technological project together. At the same time, France and the other Entente members openly and publicly argued over recognizing the USA's name change, and France openly and obviously supported the USA and was firmly against the Entente.

So after 3 years France was on a certain track, yes. But barely. As Ive said, consider it a change of government. One guy was in office that supported the Entente, Imperialism, the whole shebang. But right now, a military government with its military leader is in place. Thomas set his OOC and IC standards for HIS France. Not Lighthearter's. Lighthearter has a whole different leader in power right now, a whole different government. LH never claimed the people supported him or anything like that. Quite the opposite at first. But since LH, and IC wise, the new government has taken over, you can distinctly see that they are Pro-USA, and anti-Entente. Think of it like the 2008 american presidential election. Bush had one set of ideals, but when obama got elected in, he brought in a whole new set. They didnt get implemented overnight...but neither did France's in this game.

Right now, you are limiting the player. Thomas barely posted. How the heck were we even supposed to know what his country was about? He never even set a standard to be honest.

And to all these nations and players complaining that he is forgoing ties with other nations...well even if you discount that he is obviously against the Entente and their beliefs, you come to the fact that they are merely a tech alliance. The front page says it, ZD says it...well its NOT a military alliance. Then, just because the Entente admits a new member doesnt mean that France HAS to approve of them. You are trying to TELL France what they should do based on its previous government. Also, he has been building ties with the USA ever since he started playing. Joint research projects, openly supporting them over the Entente.

You say treat this like you would IC, or in RL. Why dont you try to look at it that way for a second. Do you really think two entirely different governments would have the same reactions to this? Treat LH like a new government in France. New opinions, new policies, and new reactions.


Just a side note on the comparison of this to the CSA attacking the USA...well the CSA didnt even declare war. They barely said anything in the thread that would have led people to believe they would declare war. Sure, he set some subtle hints in his election and such like that, but maybe LH doesnt have time to do something like that? Ever think that some people might not have the time or dedication to write complex and interesting and revealing short stories about their nation that would set up their new actions? The CSA never gave me any sanctions, nor did they place any embargoes on me. They didnt yell and scream. And as to the annexation comment: Well maybe France supports the annexation of New England instead of the CSA doing the opposite. CSA didnt like the peace terms that we offered New England, maybe France didnt like the peace terms that the CSA was offering us.

And france never said they supported the CSA. They never really expressed their opinion towards them. The CSA joined the Entente well after France did, so you cant say by joining then France accepted them with open arms. Its also a tech alliance. Doesnt mean the nations like each other. AND the CSA is merely an observer, AND France has made it clear that they arent chummy with the Entente anymore.

If you truly want an example that fits this situation, then I have been thinking of how Italy left the Triple alliance right before WW1, and eventually joined the allies. The OTL's Entente. They only had a year or two between enemy camps. Im not too familiar with that situation, but the basic facts there sure do seem to apply to this one. And im pretty sure that no country in RL is controlled by a human being in some alternate universe playing them as part of a NES forum game.

 

[Immaculate]

Strictly OOC and not IC: I think Arya argues his point well.